Time for new brakes, have questions
09-10-2011, 10:46 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MT
Posts: 93
Time for new brakes, have questions
I replaced the rear pads on my 02 GT earlier this year and now it's time for the fronts (I've got 1/8th inch or so of pad left). On my 04 Subaru Legacy I'm running Akebono-sourced ceramics from CarQuest on all 4 corners and it stops like nobody's business, these are the same pads I put on the rear of my Mustang and have no complaints. I've got a set of them on order for the front but I'm wondering if I should do some upgrading while I'm at it. I work for CQ so I get jobber prices on everything and I'm really eyeing the Mach/Cobra/Bullitt brake conversion but whether or not it is a worthwhile investment for me is debatable.
98% of the time the car is driven like a grocery-getter and only need the brakes to stop for yellow lights, idiots on bicycles, and stopping for pedestrians. The other 2% of the time is either the good-ole stoplight grand prix or out on the open road pushing ~140 MPH and only using the brakes going into corners or slowing down for traffic. I haven't pushed these brakes hard enough to warp the stock rotors and have had a few panic stops in town for pedestrians (college campuses SUCK) and the stock brakes have been great. I've spent several hours reading through countless other threads about brake upgrades and it has only served to confuse me further, so I have some questions:
1) Should I drop $200-$300 and give up an afternoon of studying to go to the bigger brakes? I love the way they fill the wheels in better but there seems to be concern about whether or not they fit stock wheels (mine are the Bullitt/Torque Thrust D style wheels). Stock brakes are good, but since I don't remember the brakes on my Dad's old Bullitt or my brother's Mach 1 I can't really say for sure if it's worth it to me or not.
2) Stainless lines, are they worth it for a car that will likely never see an actual road course and if it is ever autocrossed it will be for fun and not going for the #1 time on the course.
3) DOT 5.1 brake fluid. I've read Jazzer's brake post forward and back a few times as well as read the label on the stuff and it seems it will eat O-rings and is not to be used on a car with ABS. I intend to flush the brake fluid when I change the pads, do I stick to DOT 4 if I don't want to deal with the complications of the silicon-based fluids?
4) Some people say the Banjo bolt off the stock caliper will go straight into the new one, others have said it's a different pitch. Any clarification on this?
Sorry about the wordiness, I just like to be absolutely clear on what I'm doing, not have any surprises, and try not to make any stupid mistakes...
98% of the time the car is driven like a grocery-getter and only need the brakes to stop for yellow lights, idiots on bicycles, and stopping for pedestrians. The other 2% of the time is either the good-ole stoplight grand prix or out on the open road pushing ~140 MPH and only using the brakes going into corners or slowing down for traffic. I haven't pushed these brakes hard enough to warp the stock rotors and have had a few panic stops in town for pedestrians (college campuses SUCK) and the stock brakes have been great. I've spent several hours reading through countless other threads about brake upgrades and it has only served to confuse me further, so I have some questions:
1) Should I drop $200-$300 and give up an afternoon of studying to go to the bigger brakes? I love the way they fill the wheels in better but there seems to be concern about whether or not they fit stock wheels (mine are the Bullitt/Torque Thrust D style wheels). Stock brakes are good, but since I don't remember the brakes on my Dad's old Bullitt or my brother's Mach 1 I can't really say for sure if it's worth it to me or not.
2) Stainless lines, are they worth it for a car that will likely never see an actual road course and if it is ever autocrossed it will be for fun and not going for the #1 time on the course.
3) DOT 5.1 brake fluid. I've read Jazzer's brake post forward and back a few times as well as read the label on the stuff and it seems it will eat O-rings and is not to be used on a car with ABS. I intend to flush the brake fluid when I change the pads, do I stick to DOT 4 if I don't want to deal with the complications of the silicon-based fluids?
4) Some people say the Banjo bolt off the stock caliper will go straight into the new one, others have said it's a different pitch. Any clarification on this?
Sorry about the wordiness, I just like to be absolutely clear on what I'm doing, not have any surprises, and try not to make any stupid mistakes...
09-11-2011, 09:48 AM
#4
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If you are going soo far as to replace the fluid, just go with the premium stuff. We are talking minimal additional expense and will hold up better over time. My brakes upgrade will not do you much good on every day driving while practicing good braking techniques. It is the times when you are NOT just DD and practicing good driving techniques on the street that they can be of MAJOR benefit.
Spend the $350 and be 100% quality on your brakes and will NEVER regret it! Take as second to think about how important brakes are and how reliability is comforting.
Jazzer
Spend the $350 and be 100% quality on your brakes and will NEVER regret it! Take as second to think about how important brakes are and how reliability is comforting.
Jazzer
09-11-2011, 09:56 AM
#5
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MT
Posts: 93
When you say "Premium Fluid" are you talking about the DOT 5.1 or just some good DOT4? I work later today and will price out the conversion and go from there, shouldn't be too pricey. Any insight on the Banjo bolts?
09-11-2011, 10:47 AM
#6
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I'm talking DOT 5.1 or all out race fluid, as I run in my ride.
It will handle higher temps, hold up better over time and is about the same cost as DOT 5.1 with the same effort to flush it all out
Beyond this though, their are a million diffences between the brakes on your Legacy and Mustang. Suspension geometry, tires, mechanical forces due to brake design and weight of the car are all huge parts of the equasion. With the mods found in my Brakes Upgrade thread, you WILL stop as well as possible and cannot stop your car any faster! Even bigger brakes won't stop faster, only address some issues of heat that arrise from repetative hard braking.
Remember, brakes are ONLY as good as the tires, so be sure to run the most grip you can on your ride
Jazzer
It will handle higher temps, hold up better over time and is about the same cost as DOT 5.1 with the same effort to flush it all out
Beyond this though, their are a million diffences between the brakes on your Legacy and Mustang. Suspension geometry, tires, mechanical forces due to brake design and weight of the car are all huge parts of the equasion. With the mods found in my Brakes Upgrade thread, you WILL stop as well as possible and cannot stop your car any faster! Even bigger brakes won't stop faster, only address some issues of heat that arrise from repetative hard braking.
Remember, brakes are ONLY as good as the tires, so be sure to run the most grip you can on your ride
Jazzer
09-11-2011, 12:09 PM
#7
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MT
Posts: 93
I'm talking DOT 5.1 or all out race fluid, as I run in my ride.
It will handle higher temps, hold up better over time and is about the same cost as DOT 5.1 with the same effort to flush it all out
Beyond this though, their are a million diffences between the brakes on your Legacy and Mustang. Suspension geometry, tires, mechanical forces due to brake design and weight of the car are all huge parts of the equasion. With the mods found in my Brakes Upgrade thread, you WILL stop as well as possible and cannot stop your car any faster! Even bigger brakes won't stop faster, only address some issues of heat that arrise from repetative hard braking.
Remember, brakes are ONLY as good as the tires, so be sure to run the most grip you can on your ride
Jazzer
It will handle higher temps, hold up better over time and is about the same cost as DOT 5.1 with the same effort to flush it all out
Beyond this though, their are a million diffences between the brakes on your Legacy and Mustang. Suspension geometry, tires, mechanical forces due to brake design and weight of the car are all huge parts of the equasion. With the mods found in my Brakes Upgrade thread, you WILL stop as well as possible and cannot stop your car any faster! Even bigger brakes won't stop faster, only address some issues of heat that arrise from repetative hard braking.
Remember, brakes are ONLY as good as the tires, so be sure to run the most grip you can on your ride
Jazzer
I understand there are a ton of differences between the two cars, I was just saying I'm very happy with the braking performance of these ceramics and wondering if it is worth nearly $300 to upgrade. I don't do a whole lot of repetitive hard braking, the only times I ever really light them up is in a situation where sudden braking is necessary and un-avoidable and so far the stock brakes have been good. I'm just really torn between running good pads on the stock rotors and dumping money into the brakes that I may not even need...
I'm running BF-Goodrich G-Force KDWs all around with plenty of tread left, traction isn't much of a problem
09-11-2011, 12:42 PM
#8
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You definetely want to use DOT 5.1, as it is compatable with your system. I am not sure it is the seals in the ABS unit that can have problems with DOT 5, but just within the braking system. I do think it IS worth the $300 to upgrade, as one NEVER plans to overheat the brakes and your life is worth at least..... oh, I don't know, 2 or 3 times that I'm sure 
Here is a video of what it is like to lose your brakes (just watch until about 1:55):
OMG.... I got no brakes!
Now.... I completely understand, this is an open-track situation and that it would be EXTREMELY difficult to get your brakes this hot on the street. I can tell you that you get your car moving at well over 100 MPH and need to stop in an all-fired-up hurry..... OEM Mustang brakes will get to the point at which they begin to go. They may not go this bad, but if you have no run-off area that this guy had......?
Jazzer
Here is a video of what it is like to lose your brakes (just watch until about 1:55):
OMG.... I got no brakes!
Now.... I completely understand, this is an open-track situation and that it would be EXTREMELY difficult to get your brakes this hot on the street. I can tell you that you get your car moving at well over 100 MPH and need to stop in an all-fired-up hurry..... OEM Mustang brakes will get to the point at which they begin to go. They may not go this bad, but if you have no run-off area that this guy had......?
Jazzer
Last edited by Jazzer The Cat; 09-11-2011 at 12:45 PM.
09-11-2011, 01:03 PM
#10
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Open-track is fun, but the risk of crashing is ALWAYS present! I have been around Infineon for a few hours and was not bad, because there was not a ton of traffic. So long as the track has a good run-off area, such as that used by the above, it is MUCH less nerve racking. Infineon has several locations that are bad news, should you enter/exit the corner poorly:
I rode the dark black line path and must look out for a couple spots. 3a, the bottom of 6 and 8~10 can be hairy.
Don't want to hijack the thread any longer, but have a little vid, for those curious:
Jazzer
I rode the dark black line path and must look out for a couple spots. 3a, the bottom of 6 and 8~10 can be hairy.
Don't want to hijack the thread any longer, but have a little vid, for those curious:
Jazzer