performance questions/suggestions
10-16-2006, 08:20 PM
#11
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 2,544
RE: performance questions/suggestions
Actually, most of the things you specify are easily done.
D&D sells a Viper-spec T56 (6-speed trans) that is even stronger than the GT500 one. The kit is $5000, and that includes a clutch and aluminum driveshaft. You can get the Cobra-spec version for $1500 less.
14" rotors & upgraded calipers are available from many vendors. The cheapest, however, is the GT500 parts. Less than $1000...
The GT500 engine is a 5.4 L, but that doesn't matter much. A stock 3V GT motor with any of the above-mentioned blowers will be making similar HP. The GT500 has an older, inefficient, Roots blower, not a new-gen screw blower.
McLeod and Exedy both make dual-disc clutches for these cars. Spec makes single-disc that can hold over 1000 ft-lb torque as well. Fidanza also has high HP clutches.
The GT500 engine is not the same as the Ford GT engine. The GT500 engine is cast iron, not aluminum like the Ford GT. Also, the Ford GT has dry sump oiling, unlike the wet setup on the GT500. The GT500 is more like the truck engine than the Ford GT engine.
Aftermarket supercharger kits make comporable HP with less displacement becasue they are running more agressive timing. Also, the GT500 engine has very low compression. GT + Blower is higher net compression than the GT500 setup is. Don't forget that the modded GT will have a couple hundred lbs weight advantage over the GT 500 as well.
Race gas is generally available at race tracks. It comes in various octane ratings, 100 octane is one of em. You can also get 107, 116, etc. It's a few bucks per gallon (more than double the price of regular gas). Keep in mind that some race gas is leaded, and that stuff is certainly not street legal. Most places that sell race gas won't let you pump it into a street vehicle.
D&D sells a Viper-spec T56 (6-speed trans) that is even stronger than the GT500 one. The kit is $5000, and that includes a clutch and aluminum driveshaft. You can get the Cobra-spec version for $1500 less.
14" rotors & upgraded calipers are available from many vendors. The cheapest, however, is the GT500 parts. Less than $1000...
The GT500 engine is a 5.4 L, but that doesn't matter much. A stock 3V GT motor with any of the above-mentioned blowers will be making similar HP. The GT500 has an older, inefficient, Roots blower, not a new-gen screw blower.
McLeod and Exedy both make dual-disc clutches for these cars. Spec makes single-disc that can hold over 1000 ft-lb torque as well. Fidanza also has high HP clutches.
The GT500 engine is not the same as the Ford GT engine. The GT500 engine is cast iron, not aluminum like the Ford GT. Also, the Ford GT has dry sump oiling, unlike the wet setup on the GT500. The GT500 is more like the truck engine than the Ford GT engine.
Aftermarket supercharger kits make comporable HP with less displacement becasue they are running more agressive timing. Also, the GT500 engine has very low compression. GT + Blower is higher net compression than the GT500 setup is. Don't forget that the modded GT will have a couple hundred lbs weight advantage over the GT 500 as well.
Race gas is generally available at race tracks. It comes in various octane ratings, 100 octane is one of em. You can also get 107, 116, etc. It's a few bucks per gallon (more than double the price of regular gas). Keep in mind that some race gas is leaded, and that stuff is certainly not street legal. Most places that sell race gas won't let you pump it into a street vehicle.
10-17-2006, 01:41 AM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 165
RE: performance questions/suggestions
thanks for the info, i didn't know that stuff. i spent hours on the net looking for stuff like that but i couldn't find any of it. plus i went to some shops and asked about it and they said they didn't make it and they were to scared to make one for a gt (the tranny).
i already know many vendors sell the 14" rotor and 4 piston caliper setups. but where can i get the gt500 setup? if it's less than 1000 i will defenitely look into that.
also, you said mcleod and exedy make dual disc clutch systems, but would i really need it if the d&d viper spec t56 tranny comes with one? i assume it's a single clutch kit but it should be powerful enough if it's viper spec right? i don't think they would put a cheap clutch setup on that anyways.
i understand now about the gt500 & ford gt engines. but other than one being cast in aluminum and one in iron they're the same right? cause i mean they're both 5.4 liter v8's. the only thing i can think of different is the durability factory. i know cast iron engines are tougher and last longer.
oh, and we do have one gas station by the international airport that sells unleaded 100 octane. thats why i said i can get it no problem. people around here in there little four bangers get that stuff when they decide to go to the foothills and race. and whats the difference between leaded and unleaded? i've never really paid attention to it.
the reason i'm looking to do it cheap is cause when some rich lil' fart a$$ comes up to me totin he has a gt500 i'll toast his a$$. i've had people in corvettes laugh at me and i wanna show em what a stang can do. these are our ultimate rivals. the mustang and the corvette are the only mainstream muscle cars that have not stopped production since they were started according to my knowledge.
once again thanks for the info...[sm=smiley20.gif]
i already know many vendors sell the 14" rotor and 4 piston caliper setups. but where can i get the gt500 setup? if it's less than 1000 i will defenitely look into that.
also, you said mcleod and exedy make dual disc clutch systems, but would i really need it if the d&d viper spec t56 tranny comes with one? i assume it's a single clutch kit but it should be powerful enough if it's viper spec right? i don't think they would put a cheap clutch setup on that anyways.
i understand now about the gt500 & ford gt engines. but other than one being cast in aluminum and one in iron they're the same right? cause i mean they're both 5.4 liter v8's. the only thing i can think of different is the durability factory. i know cast iron engines are tougher and last longer.
oh, and we do have one gas station by the international airport that sells unleaded 100 octane. thats why i said i can get it no problem. people around here in there little four bangers get that stuff when they decide to go to the foothills and race. and whats the difference between leaded and unleaded? i've never really paid attention to it.
the reason i'm looking to do it cheap is cause when some rich lil' fart a$$ comes up to me totin he has a gt500 i'll toast his a$$. i've had people in corvettes laugh at me and i wanna show em what a stang can do. these are our ultimate rivals. the mustang and the corvette are the only mainstream muscle cars that have not stopped production since they were started according to my knowledge.
once again thanks for the info...[sm=smiley20.gif]
10-17-2006, 02:00 AM
#13
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,544
RE: performance questions/suggestions
I am not sure exactly what clutch D&D includes in their kit. I think it is a single disc, but I could be wrong about that. Whatever it is, it can handle some pretty serious HP. Even if you wanted something better, there's always the other options we discussed.
I can't recall a vendor offhand for the GT500 brakes. Search on the forum, there are already a couple of guys that have the GT500 setup on their cars. A few weeks ago someone posted their install pics as well as info on where the parts came from. I would imagine that GT500 conversion kits will be becoming quite popular in the near future, just like what happened with the Cobra brakes on the previous generation of mustangs.
Leaded gas has tetraethyl lead added to it. It's a chemical that is used to reduce knocking and also to reduce exhaust gas temperatures, which in turn helped protect the seats of the exhaust valves in the engine. It is also poisonous. Many years ago most/all gas was leaded, but that was discontinued for enviornmental reasons. Now it's illegal to burn leaded gas on public roads in most countries. However some (but not all) aviation, race, or marine fuels are leaded still. If you run leaded gas, it's not only illegal, but it can destroy your oxygen sensors, catalytic converters, etc.
Anyway, if you're looking to make a cheap sleeper, I wouldn't bother with the transmission unless you are going for 500+ RWHP. A 6-speed is just "cool". It's not any faster than a 5-speed. Heck, all the serious drag racers use automatics.
If you want to build a killer car that can take on others on the street, I'd get a blower and then concentrate on weight savings and suspension. I mean, these cars will spin the tires BONE STOCK. Stop wasting that power and put it to the pavement. Get your suspension upgraded right so you can put the power to the ground. Even if you're short 50 HP (or more) vs. a Vette or Cobra or whatever, you can come out WAY ahead if you are hooking and the other guy isn't.
Big brakes will actually slow you down in the 1/4 due to the extra rotating weight. I wouldnt' buy them unless you plan on road-course racing. I know a guy who installed the down-graded V6 Mustang brakes on his GT to save weight for the strip.
I can't recall a vendor offhand for the GT500 brakes. Search on the forum, there are already a couple of guys that have the GT500 setup on their cars. A few weeks ago someone posted their install pics as well as info on where the parts came from. I would imagine that GT500 conversion kits will be becoming quite popular in the near future, just like what happened with the Cobra brakes on the previous generation of mustangs.
Leaded gas has tetraethyl lead added to it. It's a chemical that is used to reduce knocking and also to reduce exhaust gas temperatures, which in turn helped protect the seats of the exhaust valves in the engine. It is also poisonous. Many years ago most/all gas was leaded, but that was discontinued for enviornmental reasons. Now it's illegal to burn leaded gas on public roads in most countries. However some (but not all) aviation, race, or marine fuels are leaded still. If you run leaded gas, it's not only illegal, but it can destroy your oxygen sensors, catalytic converters, etc.
Anyway, if you're looking to make a cheap sleeper, I wouldn't bother with the transmission unless you are going for 500+ RWHP. A 6-speed is just "cool". It's not any faster than a 5-speed. Heck, all the serious drag racers use automatics.
If you want to build a killer car that can take on others on the street, I'd get a blower and then concentrate on weight savings and suspension. I mean, these cars will spin the tires BONE STOCK. Stop wasting that power and put it to the pavement. Get your suspension upgraded right so you can put the power to the ground. Even if you're short 50 HP (or more) vs. a Vette or Cobra or whatever, you can come out WAY ahead if you are hooking and the other guy isn't.
Big brakes will actually slow you down in the 1/4 due to the extra rotating weight. I wouldnt' buy them unless you plan on road-course racing. I know a guy who installed the down-graded V6 Mustang brakes on his GT to save weight for the strip.
10-17-2006, 04:59 AM
#14
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
RE: performance questions/suggestions
+1 on does she have a sister, 20 psi with a built and stroked motor on a super charger will give you around 800 rwhp give or take. I would also want to tell you that 1k rwhp will definitely mean it will NOT be a daily driver, you will break 2 often so you might have to sell your car to get a tow truck. If you want 1k hp daily driver then you gotta go with either a supra a vette or a r25 skyline haha. Unless you go turbo and just run it at 15ish psi daily and have a High boost (35 psi or more) button. I doubt you will be able to control all of that in a street setting. You say the term turbo lag but let me tell you something. Turbo lag is a thing of the past IT DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE....well unless you are expect to have all the boost by hitting 5th gear at 40 mph. The reason why turbos are so common is because they are the best way of force induction. IT does not lead to many broken belts (like you will if have if you are going for 1k hp) and the most important 2 are 1: you can run at 8psi daily and run it up whenever you need too and 2: it does not steal HP to make HP.
Att. Andrew
Att. Andrew
10-19-2006, 07:25 AM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 165
RE: performance questions/suggestions
sorry guys, she doesn't have any wealthy sisters. she has one half sister supposedly but she never met her (and her supposed half sister is not entitled to nor recieves any money). she has two brothers, one is married and one has a possesive crazy gf who controls everything he does. so the chances are slim of anyone getting "into" the family. i just happened to catch her lookin for for some midnight booty action. i'm sure everyone has heard of myspace. it's nice, no bills, no paying for food or rent, or anything. before anyone says anything i do work and spend my own money. she just happened to get lucky and be born with this family and inherit everything, so why not share? it's not like she minds.
anyways, i'm not looking to totally get 1k hp, 800 sounds good for me and thats max. 440-450 daily. just change out the displacement pulleys in a matter of 5 minutes or so and get 800 hp if someone decides to race me for pinks. i think 800 hp will take out most people. i'm just looking to get in ten second range for when i move to phoenix and start going to the tracks.
and maybe turbo lag doesn't exist on expensive or big turbos (i really don't know), but i know when i kill srt-4's in my sixer right now (n/a) from a dig, there is turbo lag on those cheaply built things. i drove my former nco's srt-4 when he first got it back in germany and i know for a fact that they have horrible turbo lag (i know cause i felt an instant boost). plus i heard turbos are hard to launch (when i drove his, i just accellerated normaly). is that true?
crazyal, you must mean the bigger rotors, right? cause the brake calipers don't move themselves. how about getting stock size slotted rotors, and putting 4 piston calipers on those? think that would be better?
plus i would think that a six speed transmission is faster. with more gears you can keep a tighter rpm ratio when shifting therefore making your accelleration faster because higher rpm's mean faster accelleration right?and with all that horsepower it might be better to keep a tight rpm ratio. maybe i sound stupid or something cause i'm just going on an educated guess here but let me know if i'm wrong that way i don't give the wrong advice to someone else down down the road. thanks for any info, suggestions or comments you guys.
anyways, i'm not looking to totally get 1k hp, 800 sounds good for me and thats max. 440-450 daily. just change out the displacement pulleys in a matter of 5 minutes or so and get 800 hp if someone decides to race me for pinks. i think 800 hp will take out most people. i'm just looking to get in ten second range for when i move to phoenix and start going to the tracks.
and maybe turbo lag doesn't exist on expensive or big turbos (i really don't know), but i know when i kill srt-4's in my sixer right now (n/a) from a dig, there is turbo lag on those cheaply built things. i drove my former nco's srt-4 when he first got it back in germany and i know for a fact that they have horrible turbo lag (i know cause i felt an instant boost). plus i heard turbos are hard to launch (when i drove his, i just accellerated normaly). is that true?
crazyal, you must mean the bigger rotors, right? cause the brake calipers don't move themselves. how about getting stock size slotted rotors, and putting 4 piston calipers on those? think that would be better?
plus i would think that a six speed transmission is faster. with more gears you can keep a tighter rpm ratio when shifting therefore making your accelleration faster because higher rpm's mean faster accelleration right?and with all that horsepower it might be better to keep a tight rpm ratio. maybe i sound stupid or something cause i'm just going on an educated guess here but let me know if i'm wrong that way i don't give the wrong advice to someone else down down the road. thanks for any info, suggestions or comments you guys.
10-19-2006, 11:20 AM
#16
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
RE: performance questions/suggestions
ORIGINAL: bennihill
my girlfriend is half cocopah and half quechan (native american). she gets over 300,000 anually from the casinos
my girlfriend is half cocopah and half quechan (native american). she gets over 300,000 anually from the casinos
I have to bring out the flag on this statement.
[sm=bs.gif]
I'm sure casinos make plenty of money, but I can't see them paying ever half-blooded Native American $150,000 each. Maybe your numbers are exaggerated a little.
10-19-2006, 11:36 AM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 2,544
RE: performance questions/suggestions
As for the brakes, yes, it's the larger rotors that slow you down. As you said, the calipers don't move. Slotted rotors wouldn't really help though. First off, slotting is basically a gimmick these days. The truth is that slotted and drilled rotors are actually WORSE for braking performance than solid rotors. This wasn't the case with the crappy brake pad technology back in the 70's, but nowadays there is no need for slots or holes. Also, your average "street" slotted rotor is barely any lighter than a non-slotted rotor. We're talking a few grams of weight difference. In some race classes they use heavily drilled rotors for weight savings. However, that kind of rotor would be unsafe on a street car. The race cars they are meant for are very lightweight, and the rotors are also frequently replaced due to cracking. You can read about this in the tech notes section at Wilwood's web site.
As for the transmission, this depends on what kind of racing you are doing. A 6-speed could be an advantage on a road course with a skilled driver. However, in a drag race that's not true. The issue is that while more gears might help you optimize your powerband a little better, they also take time to shift. Shifting time hurts your ET. Also, the extra gear in that transmission is just a very tall overdrive. You'd never hit it in a drag race anyway. In most drag races you'd never get out of 3rd or maybe 4th--but you'd never be hitting 5th or 6th. Most pro drag racers in the really hot classes use TWO SPEED automatics for this very reason.
As I said before, I'd only buy a new trans if you had to do it from a durability and power-handling point of view.
Regarding your 800 HP plan. Yeah, that should kill pretty much anything on the road. But, be forewarned that you are going to have all kinds of problems keeping your blower drive belt working at that kind of HP. As I mentioned before, all the hardcore guys who are wanting that kind of HP are selling their blowers and are switching to turbos becasue they just can't get that HP level with a blower. There's nothing wrong with the blower itself, it's that the belt has to transmit so much HP to the blower pulley that they constantly slip and break, or break tensioners. I would do a LOT of research talking with the companies that actually make the blowers before you decide on this course of action.
Turbos can be hard to launch on Manual transmissions, that depends on your skill level. The issue is that you have no drag to build boost against while you're on the line. On the other hand, Turbo + Automatic is a lethal combinaton becasue you can build boost against the converter. That's why the legendary Buick Grand National was so fast. Turbo + High-stall converter + Automatic....fast as hell. I remember reading an old magazine article in which they transplanted a manual trans into a Grand National, and their ETs dropped by about two seconds!
As for the transmission, this depends on what kind of racing you are doing. A 6-speed could be an advantage on a road course with a skilled driver. However, in a drag race that's not true. The issue is that while more gears might help you optimize your powerband a little better, they also take time to shift. Shifting time hurts your ET. Also, the extra gear in that transmission is just a very tall overdrive. You'd never hit it in a drag race anyway. In most drag races you'd never get out of 3rd or maybe 4th--but you'd never be hitting 5th or 6th. Most pro drag racers in the really hot classes use TWO SPEED automatics for this very reason.
As I said before, I'd only buy a new trans if you had to do it from a durability and power-handling point of view.
Regarding your 800 HP plan. Yeah, that should kill pretty much anything on the road. But, be forewarned that you are going to have all kinds of problems keeping your blower drive belt working at that kind of HP. As I mentioned before, all the hardcore guys who are wanting that kind of HP are selling their blowers and are switching to turbos becasue they just can't get that HP level with a blower. There's nothing wrong with the blower itself, it's that the belt has to transmit so much HP to the blower pulley that they constantly slip and break, or break tensioners. I would do a LOT of research talking with the companies that actually make the blowers before you decide on this course of action.
Turbos can be hard to launch on Manual transmissions, that depends on your skill level. The issue is that you have no drag to build boost against while you're on the line. On the other hand, Turbo + Automatic is a lethal combinaton becasue you can build boost against the converter. That's why the legendary Buick Grand National was so fast. Turbo + High-stall converter + Automatic....fast as hell. I remember reading an old magazine article in which they transplanted a manual trans into a Grand National, and their ETs dropped by about two seconds!
10-19-2006, 06:39 PM
#18
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
RE: performance questions/suggestions
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
As for the brakes, yes, it's the larger rotors that slow you down. As you said, the calipers don't move. Slotted rotors wouldn't really help though. First off, slotting is basically a gimmick these days. The truth is that slotted and drilled rotors are actually WORSE for braking performance than solid rotors. This wasn't the case with the crappy brake pad technology back in the 70's, but nowadays there is no need for slots or holes. Also, your average "street" slotted rotor is barely any lighter than a non-slotted rotor. We're talking a few grams of weight difference. In some race classes they use heavily drilled rotors for weight savings. However, that kind of rotor would be unsafe on a street car. The race cars they are meant for are very lightweight, and the rotors are also frequently replaced due to cracking. You can read about this in the tech notes section at Wilwood's web site.
As for the transmission, this depends on what kind of racing you are doing. A 6-speed could be an advantage on a road course with a skilled driver. However, in a drag race that's not true. The issue is that while more gears might help you optimize your powerband a little better, they also take time to shift. Shifting time hurts your ET. Also, the extra gear in that transmission is just a very tall overdrive. You'd never hit it in a drag race anyway. In most drag races you'd never get out of 3rd or maybe 4th--but you'd never be hitting 5th or 6th. Most pro drag racers in the really hot classes use TWO SPEED automatics for this very reason.
As I said before, I'd only buy a new trans if you had to do it from a durability and power-handling point of view.
Regarding your 800 HP plan. Yeah, that should kill pretty much anything on the road. But, be forewarned that you are going to have all kinds of problems keeping your blower drive belt working at that kind of HP. As I mentioned before, all the hardcore guys who are wanting that kind of HP are selling their blowers and are switching to turbos becasue they just can't get that HP level with a blower. There's nothing wrong with the blower itself, it's that the belt has to transmit so much HP to the blower pulley that they constantly slip and break, or break tensioners. I would do a LOT of research talking with the companies that actually make the blowers before you decide on this course of action.
Turbos can be hard to launch on Manual transmissions, that depends on your skill level. The issue is that you have no drag to build boost against while you're on the line. On the other hand, Turbo + Automatic is a lethal combinaton becasue you can build boost against the converter. That's why the legendary Buick Grand National was so fast. Turbo + High-stall converter + Automatic....fast as hell. I remember reading an old magazine article in which they transplanted a manual trans into a Grand National, and their ETs dropped by about two seconds!
As for the brakes, yes, it's the larger rotors that slow you down. As you said, the calipers don't move. Slotted rotors wouldn't really help though. First off, slotting is basically a gimmick these days. The truth is that slotted and drilled rotors are actually WORSE for braking performance than solid rotors. This wasn't the case with the crappy brake pad technology back in the 70's, but nowadays there is no need for slots or holes. Also, your average "street" slotted rotor is barely any lighter than a non-slotted rotor. We're talking a few grams of weight difference. In some race classes they use heavily drilled rotors for weight savings. However, that kind of rotor would be unsafe on a street car. The race cars they are meant for are very lightweight, and the rotors are also frequently replaced due to cracking. You can read about this in the tech notes section at Wilwood's web site.
As for the transmission, this depends on what kind of racing you are doing. A 6-speed could be an advantage on a road course with a skilled driver. However, in a drag race that's not true. The issue is that while more gears might help you optimize your powerband a little better, they also take time to shift. Shifting time hurts your ET. Also, the extra gear in that transmission is just a very tall overdrive. You'd never hit it in a drag race anyway. In most drag races you'd never get out of 3rd or maybe 4th--but you'd never be hitting 5th or 6th. Most pro drag racers in the really hot classes use TWO SPEED automatics for this very reason.
As I said before, I'd only buy a new trans if you had to do it from a durability and power-handling point of view.
Regarding your 800 HP plan. Yeah, that should kill pretty much anything on the road. But, be forewarned that you are going to have all kinds of problems keeping your blower drive belt working at that kind of HP. As I mentioned before, all the hardcore guys who are wanting that kind of HP are selling their blowers and are switching to turbos becasue they just can't get that HP level with a blower. There's nothing wrong with the blower itself, it's that the belt has to transmit so much HP to the blower pulley that they constantly slip and break, or break tensioners. I would do a LOT of research talking with the companies that actually make the blowers before you decide on this course of action.
Turbos can be hard to launch on Manual transmissions, that depends on your skill level. The issue is that you have no drag to build boost against while you're on the line. On the other hand, Turbo + Automatic is a lethal combinaton becasue you can build boost against the converter. That's why the legendary Buick Grand National was so fast. Turbo + High-stall converter + Automatic....fast as hell. I remember reading an old magazine article in which they transplanted a manual trans into a Grand National, and their ETs dropped by about two seconds!
10-20-2006, 05:59 PM
#19
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 165
RE: performance questions/suggestions
moosestang, even though this is off topic i will explain it to you. she is half quechan and half cocopah. half blood is referred to as part native american and part of something else. quechan and cocopah are both both native american, just different tribes. she is 100% native american. each tribe only requires at least a quarter to recieve full pay from them. now while most can't recieve money from two tribes, her mother happens to be the tribal secretary and they are good friends with the tribal president. plus due to the fact that we have snowbirds who come down here and gamble during the winter makes this more than possible. plus there are only about 2,400 members of the tribe that recieve pay on the paradise (quechan) side. and she only gets a small percentage compared to what other people get. this casino makes over 100 million a year. after paying the employees (not to mention if you are quechan you have a job if you want it), and bills, and no paying taxes at all, there is plenty money left. and cocopah is even bigger and they make even more money. i'm not sure how much she makes, but it is in that ballpark. sometimes less, sometimes more. and its not exactly 150,000 from each, the numbers vary with the intakes and what repairs they have to do to the buildings or the upgrades or new equipment. one year she only recieved 96,000 total from both because they were doing the renovating thing.
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