bkmagby

Ok, I have read and searched all things headers on thisforum. I am fully aware that Long Tubes make more Power than Short Tube headers. The examples I have seen on this forum and also from searches on the internet is that long tubes will gain you as much as 28 rwhp and that short tubes will gain you about 10 rwhp.

What I have not been able to find out is how much of that 28 rwhp from long tube headers is actually gained from the fact that every dyno that I have seen with long tube headers is also using an O/R X-pipe?

I want to keep my car completely street legal, yet still make as much power as possible while doing that, which means I will have to run cats.

So, how much power is gained with the removal of the cats and the installation of the O/R X-pipe? I feel that any discussion of long tubes vs. short tubes should take into account any additional power gained from the O/R X-pipe when used in conjunction with the long tube headers and the additional cost associated with it.

So as an example, would it be a fair assumption that the break down would look something like this? O/R X-pipe equals 10 rwhp (5 hp from the x-pipe, and another 5 hp from the removal of the cats) and 18 rwhp from the long tube headers?

Compared to short tube headers were we are only talking about installing the short tubes and leaving everything else stock and cats in place. Therefore short tube headers equal approximately 10 to 12 rwhp versus long tube headers equal 15 to 18 rwhp, (not counting the hp gained from the O/R X-pipe which includes removal of the cats)?

Does this sound fair and accurate? If so then we also need to look at the cost/value as well. I also understand that the installation cost/time is equal for both long tube and short tube headers. But the cost of a good set of short tube headers such as JBA (which "claims" 21 rwhp, I know that this is not realistic) is $500.00. A set of long tubes with a catted X-pipe is around $900.00 to $1200.00, so the cost difference is significant. Especially if you consider that if you run a catted X-pipe that you are not picking up the whole 18-rwhp advantage over the good quality short tube headers.

So are we looking at roughly $400.00 to $700.00 dollars difference for an additional 10 to 13 rwhp for the long tube headers vs. short tube headers if we want to run a catted system? And again, that is considering that the cats account for about 5 rwhp and the x-pipe account for an additional 5 rwhp.

If this is an accurate approximation, then your actually only gaining 5 to 8 rwhp with long tubes headers, (10-12 hp for the short tubes vs. 15-18 hp for long tubes) over short tube headers for almost twice the cost. Is this a fair assumption? Or another way to look at it is, the cost per hp is about the same between short tube and long tube headers. Short tubes cost less, but give you less hp. Long tubes cost more, but give you more.

I don’t have headers yet, so I am not trying to push one type over the other, I am simply trying to gain as much information as I can, weigh the results and make an informed decision as to what will work best for me.

exx1976

I do not have headers yet, but from my preliminary research it seems that most (if not all) long tube vendors sell high-flow catted X pipes that will mate to their LT headers. Since they are high-flow cats, they are much less restrictive than the factory cats, and you also get the additional HP from the X pipe.

I'd say that a quality system like Kooks, with their high-flow catted X, would still net you HP gains that would be fairly close to an O/R X. And, of course, those gains will be greater if you are running some type of FI setup (don't see one in your sig).

HTH...

SuperSonic05

Breenspeed's web pages the with the Kooks catted X-pipesystem "They(cats) flow so well and off road design would only be worth 2 to 3 more HP over this catted design" For the amount of work need to install headers, long or short, you might as well pay the extra dollor to get the most out of the mod

bkmagby

Any clearance issues with the Kooks long tube headers? I have heard that some of the Long Tube Headers hang down beneath the bottom of the car, much more so than the stock system. Any thoughts on this? Any pictures of Long Tube headers installed on the car, from top and from underneath?

Thanks.

howarmat

JBAs hang lowest of all from what i have read, kooks should not have this problem and I think ARH are pretty much like stock too

brad281

Sorry, but shorty headers aren't going to get 10rwhp. If the money and the install isn't an issue, get the lts.

bkmagby

I'm not talking about just "peak hp gains" I'm talking about under the curve as well. The link below shows before and after dyno’s of the BBK Short Tube headers, which gained 10+ hp and 17 ft/lbs of torque under the curve through the midrange power band, which would be very helpful to the 3V motor where the hp and torque numbers are low to begin with.

Aquote from the artical:

"Study the dyno charts to discern the real benefits of the BBK headers: improvements in torque output. For example, look at the results at 3,000 rpm. The car in the baseline test made 265.6 lb-ft. With the headers, the figure jumped to 283.2, an improvement of 17.6 lb-ft. Torque is what you feel on the street, and having more of it in the midrange is what's important for slipping through traffic and getting up freeway on-ramps. At various speeds, power output isn't too bad either. Again looking at 3,000 rpm, the baseline test result is 151.7 hp. With the headers in place, output jumped to 161.8 hp for a gain of more than 10 hp."

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techar...ers/index.html

I would think that the JBA Short Tube headers would be even better, but I have not seen actual dyno numbers for them yet, just the JBA dyno chart that they list on there web site for an increase of 20+ hp which I find a bit hard to believe.

GT Bob

I have a set of shorties (BBK's) and I would say not to discount them... 85% of what you hear people saying about them is based on hearsay and peoples experience with them on Carberated and older fuel Injection cars. While the peak gains may not be as much as it would be with a long tube/highflow mid pipe setup, where they really shine is in the off peak power. People spend far too much time on the internet dyno queen mentality of "I must have the largest peak HP and TQ numbers" without realizing that most of your driving is in the offpeak range.

I will personally back up what that article you quoted says. Down low, this car is a totally new beast and the sound certainly does not hurt either. I was cruising at 30 mph in 4th gear the other day. Traffic opened up, I downshifted to 2nd and nailed it. Pavement was dry, and yet for the first time since I have had the car, instead of just a chirp as it launched from 2nd gear, the car broke traction and went sideways until I pedaled it.