Headers first OR Whipple first?
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 273
From: Crazy
Headers first OR Whipple first?
I am planning my next mod and would like some feedback (pluses and minuses) on whether I should get the Whipple HO first orLongtube Headers installed first? I cannot afford to do both at the same time.
--I live in an east coast state that is sort of **** about emmissions so should I skip the longtube headers altogether? The inspectorsactually check to see if you have cats underneath the car or at least something that looks like cats, haha. The O2 sensor location is also worrisome for me. I don't want to worry about failing the state inspection.
--Secondly, I was told that cats are not a good idea to have when a supercharger is installed because if something goes wrong with them it can make my engine go boom? Fact or fiction? I want to keep the damn cats but I don't want to run the risk if the cats go bad with my supercharger installed.
--If longtube headers are a good idea for my application, which brand and size would be best? ARH or Kook's? 1 3/4' or 1 5/8'
--I did read numerous posts actually using the search function and read that drbobvswas told by JDM:
"Here's what I was told when at JDM
1) I would not need a new tune for LT's at all.
2)They do not turn off the sensors with their tunes, so you need extensions.
3) While they sell both ARH and Kooks, they recommended the Kooks here's their explanation;
The Kooks and ARH are both very good quality. They recommend sticking with 1 5/8" primaries, not the 1 3/4", and definitely not a 3" aftercat system.
The Kooks are technically mid length headers and not true long tubes. The O2 sensor position is not too far away from original position to become a problem.
With the ARH, the headers are so long that the O2 sensor in the collector can get too cold, and you will lose control of your sensor. This, on cold startup, esp on cold days, can cause significant idle and running issues until it warms up. The solution they perform is plugging the collector location and moving the O2 sensor into one of the primaries, close to the head. However, you are now reading off of only one cylinder.
Their conclusion was, although you may see 1-3 hp more gain with the ARH than the Kooks, it wasn't worth the potential running issues it might cause, or the hassle of performing the O2 relocation."
So...
1.) Whipple HO Intercooled Supercharger
OR
2.) ARH 1 3/4" or 1 5/8' Longtube Headersor Kook's Headerswith H-pipe (I want cats)(I have Borla Stingers)
--I live in an east coast state that is sort of **** about emmissions so should I skip the longtube headers altogether? The inspectorsactually check to see if you have cats underneath the car or at least something that looks like cats, haha. The O2 sensor location is also worrisome for me. I don't want to worry about failing the state inspection.
--Secondly, I was told that cats are not a good idea to have when a supercharger is installed because if something goes wrong with them it can make my engine go boom? Fact or fiction? I want to keep the damn cats but I don't want to run the risk if the cats go bad with my supercharger installed.
--If longtube headers are a good idea for my application, which brand and size would be best? ARH or Kook's? 1 3/4' or 1 5/8'
--I did read numerous posts actually using the search function and read that drbobvswas told by JDM:
"Here's what I was told when at JDM
1) I would not need a new tune for LT's at all.
2)They do not turn off the sensors with their tunes, so you need extensions.
3) While they sell both ARH and Kooks, they recommended the Kooks here's their explanation;
The Kooks and ARH are both very good quality. They recommend sticking with 1 5/8" primaries, not the 1 3/4", and definitely not a 3" aftercat system.
The Kooks are technically mid length headers and not true long tubes. The O2 sensor position is not too far away from original position to become a problem.
With the ARH, the headers are so long that the O2 sensor in the collector can get too cold, and you will lose control of your sensor. This, on cold startup, esp on cold days, can cause significant idle and running issues until it warms up. The solution they perform is plugging the collector location and moving the O2 sensor into one of the primaries, close to the head. However, you are now reading off of only one cylinder.
Their conclusion was, although you may see 1-3 hp more gain with the ARH than the Kooks, it wasn't worth the potential running issues it might cause, or the hassle of performing the O2 relocation."
So...
1.) Whipple HO Intercooled Supercharger
OR
2.) ARH 1 3/4" or 1 5/8' Longtube Headersor Kook's Headerswith H-pipe (I want cats)(I have Borla Stingers)
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,276
From: Orlando, FL
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
Get the Whipple and forget the headers.
Exhaust mods on these cars dont pick up the power like they used to. The stock manifolds actually flow pretty good and you have to start making some serious power before they become a restriction. I would think you might get like 15-20rwhp tops with the headers and for the money it isnt worth it. Save that cash for a Dyno tune. The Whipple will give you plenty of HP.
As far as cats being bad, thats rediculous. All OEM S/C cars come with cats, and your computer runs off the fron O2 sensor anyway. The rear sensor is for emissions only to tell if the cat is working or not. You can disconnect them easily with no affect on the car.
Get the Whipple and be prepared to smile. Save all extra cash for a built shortblock.
Exhaust mods on these cars dont pick up the power like they used to. The stock manifolds actually flow pretty good and you have to start making some serious power before they become a restriction. I would think you might get like 15-20rwhp tops with the headers and for the money it isnt worth it. Save that cash for a Dyno tune. The Whipple will give you plenty of HP.
As far as cats being bad, thats rediculous. All OEM S/C cars come with cats, and your computer runs off the fron O2 sensor anyway. The rear sensor is for emissions only to tell if the cat is working or not. You can disconnect them easily with no affect on the car.
Get the Whipple and be prepared to smile. Save all extra cash for a built shortblock.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,599
From:
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
It seems like you don't quite understand how the powertrain of your mustang operates. If I were you, I would spend a little bit of time learning how an engine works and what each of the components are and then popular power adders. If you just start throwing parts at your car, you could end up wasting a ton of money. www.howstuffworks.com has some pretty good information and diagrams which should put you on the fast track to learning about what you are going to modify. Good luck and ask lots of questions before you spend your hard earned money!
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 273
From: Crazy
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
So I assume jahudso2 understands "how the powertrain of your mustang operates." Please school me in your wealth of powertrain knowledge.
I'm far from a mechanic/engineer/racer but I get the basic idea of an engine, its components and "popular power adders." I don't care if I don't know what a steering wheel does, I can ask whatever question I want, haha.
In what part of my postdoes it indicate to you as though I am "throwing parts" on my car? I'm very interested to find out.
I have NEVER simply installed a part on my Mustang just to say I have more parts. I have thoroughly researched each addition to my car, whether it's from an appearance standpoint or a power and handling aspect. And, anyway, it's my car and I can add what the hell I want to add to my car. I'm simply asking for 'experienced' people's opinion's.
And your last sentence states that I should "ask lots of questions" before I spend my hard earned money.
Don't you see I'm asking questions in this post?
Back to asking questions...
I was TOLD by a mechanic at Evolutionthat if a catalytic converterfails it can cause serious engine problems especially with a supercharger. I know stock S/C vehicles come with cats, but just because they have them on doesn't necessarily mean it's the best idea.
I probably will skip the headers for now and go for the Whipple install. I'm pretty happy with my exhaust note. I would like it to sound a tad louder and deeper but it sounds pretty good. But as for power, I am definately looking for more HP/TQ.A supercharger would be the best route to get into the low 12's to high 11's.
Although I really don't need more power because I just got stopped by FBI agents in an unmarked Chevrolet Trailblazer for my driving on my way to work today. They said they had their "eye" on me. And I said to them you didn't see that guy in the Audi A6 and the other guy in a brand new temp tagged Infiniti G35? They said no, "we just saw you weaving in and out of traffic." Of course, they very rarely see the OTHER guy who cuts in front of me showing off.
I'm far from a mechanic/engineer/racer but I get the basic idea of an engine, its components and "popular power adders." I don't care if I don't know what a steering wheel does, I can ask whatever question I want, haha.
In what part of my postdoes it indicate to you as though I am "throwing parts" on my car? I'm very interested to find out.
I have NEVER simply installed a part on my Mustang just to say I have more parts. I have thoroughly researched each addition to my car, whether it's from an appearance standpoint or a power and handling aspect. And, anyway, it's my car and I can add what the hell I want to add to my car. I'm simply asking for 'experienced' people's opinion's.
And your last sentence states that I should "ask lots of questions" before I spend my hard earned money.
Don't you see I'm asking questions in this post?
Back to asking questions...
I was TOLD by a mechanic at Evolutionthat if a catalytic converterfails it can cause serious engine problems especially with a supercharger. I know stock S/C vehicles come with cats, but just because they have them on doesn't necessarily mean it's the best idea.
I probably will skip the headers for now and go for the Whipple install. I'm pretty happy with my exhaust note. I would like it to sound a tad louder and deeper but it sounds pretty good. But as for power, I am definately looking for more HP/TQ.A supercharger would be the best route to get into the low 12's to high 11's.
Although I really don't need more power because I just got stopped by FBI agents in an unmarked Chevrolet Trailblazer for my driving on my way to work today. They said they had their "eye" on me. And I said to them you didn't see that guy in the Audi A6 and the other guy in a brand new temp tagged Infiniti G35? They said no, "we just saw you weaving in and out of traffic." Of course, they very rarely see the OTHER guy who cuts in front of me showing off.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,491
From: New Orleans
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
ORIGINAL: 2006gtmike
So I assume jahudso2 understands "how the powertrain of your mustang operates." Please school me in your wealth of powertrain knowledge.
I'm far from a mechanic/engineer/racer but I get the basic idea of an engine, its components and "popular power adders." I don't care if I don't know what a steering wheel does, I can ask whatever question I want, haha.
In what part of my postdoes it indicate to you as though I am "throwing parts" on my car? I'm very interested to find out.
I have NEVER simply installed a part on my Mustang just to say I have more parts. I have thoroughly researched each addition to my car, whether it's from an appearance standpoint or a power and handling aspect. And, anyway, it's my car and I can add what the hell I want to add to my car. I'm simply asking for 'experienced' people's opinion's.
And your last sentence states that I should "ask lots of questions" before I spend my hard earned money.
Don't you see I'm asking questions in this post?
Back to asking questions...
I was TOLD by a mechanic at Evolutionthat if a catalytic converterfails it can cause serious engine problems especially with a supercharger. I know stock S/C vehicles come with cats, but just because they have them on doesn't necessarily mean it's the best idea.
I probably will skip the headers for now and go for the Whipple install. I'm pretty happy with my exhaust note. I would like it to sound a tad louder and deeper but it sounds pretty good. But as for power, I am definately looking for more HP/TQ.A supercharger would be the best route to get into the low 12's to high 11's.
Although I really don't need more power because I just got stopped by FBI agents in an unmarked Chevrolet Trailblazer for my driving on my way to work today. They said they had their "eye" on me. And I said to them you didn't see that guy in the Audi A6 and the other guy in a brand new temp tagged Infiniti G35? They said no, "we just saw you weaving in and out of traffic." Of course, they very rarely see the OTHER guy who cuts in front of me showing off.
So I assume jahudso2 understands "how the powertrain of your mustang operates." Please school me in your wealth of powertrain knowledge.
I'm far from a mechanic/engineer/racer but I get the basic idea of an engine, its components and "popular power adders." I don't care if I don't know what a steering wheel does, I can ask whatever question I want, haha.
In what part of my postdoes it indicate to you as though I am "throwing parts" on my car? I'm very interested to find out.
I have NEVER simply installed a part on my Mustang just to say I have more parts. I have thoroughly researched each addition to my car, whether it's from an appearance standpoint or a power and handling aspect. And, anyway, it's my car and I can add what the hell I want to add to my car. I'm simply asking for 'experienced' people's opinion's.
And your last sentence states that I should "ask lots of questions" before I spend my hard earned money.
Don't you see I'm asking questions in this post?
Back to asking questions...
I was TOLD by a mechanic at Evolutionthat if a catalytic converterfails it can cause serious engine problems especially with a supercharger. I know stock S/C vehicles come with cats, but just because they have them on doesn't necessarily mean it's the best idea.
I probably will skip the headers for now and go for the Whipple install. I'm pretty happy with my exhaust note. I would like it to sound a tad louder and deeper but it sounds pretty good. But as for power, I am definately looking for more HP/TQ.A supercharger would be the best route to get into the low 12's to high 11's.
Although I really don't need more power because I just got stopped by FBI agents in an unmarked Chevrolet Trailblazer for my driving on my way to work today. They said they had their "eye" on me. And I said to them you didn't see that guy in the Audi A6 and the other guy in a brand new temp tagged Infiniti G35? They said no, "we just saw you weaving in and out of traffic." Of course, they very rarely see the OTHER guy who cuts in front of me showing off.
BTW, get the whipple.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,358
From: City of God
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
+1 on FBI doing traffic stops lol thats hilarious, ya so what its almost 5 am and im getting a lil loopy but dam that is funny. Unless your smuggling children with your stang or something serious im about 185% sure it wasnt the FBI
4th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,599
From:
RE: Headers first OR Whipple first?
Sorry, I didnt mean to offend you. It is just thatsome people will read a couple of forum posts and start modding their cars before they know what their goals are (road racer, drag racer, dyno queen, daily driver, ect.) or how their car will be affected. Congradulations on your decision to get a whipple!