Throck!

I recently ordered the detroit rocker (blower grind) cams and pypes headers/H pipe from Brenspeed, I have not yet installed either. I have Brenspeed's E-Force Stage 1 installed.

I have a couple questions I decided to ask here instead of calling Brenspeed again because other people may have the same questions and maybe multiple view points will spur more questions. I have been browsing multiple mustang forums for a few months and have not come accross references to these questions, though I'll probably find the answers right after I post this.

1. Is there a break-in routine for 3V cams like older V8s?
2. Do aftermarket cams last as long as stock (if installed and run correctly)?
3. Why do you need to remove 3 followers on each side before you remove the cams? To eliminate binding/breakage while lifting bearing caps?
4. Does anyone have any knowledge of fuel economy after installing these cams?

Headers - It took a camaro guy to explain to me (in one minute) why headers make power. I thought it was only because it helped scavenge exhaust out of the cylinder, creating a cleaner A/F mixture to burn...turns out it takes power to push exhaust out the exhaust system. Reducing headloss through the exhaust system reduces the effort needed to push the exhaust out of the cylinders, thereby freeing up power (kinda like UDPs), and reducing stress on the rods. Not sure why I didn't put that together earlier.

I understand headers and cams won't give that much more power, but it will sound much better and create less strain on the connecting rods...besides, I'm not sure I want to push much more power anyway on a stock short block.

In attempts to create a somewhat 1-stop shop for cam/header install information, these are other threads which go through the header/cam install process which I'm sure will be very beneficial during the main event.
http://home.comcast.net/~cookpaging/...otrodcams.html
http://home.comcast.net/~cookpaging/...ompressor.html
http://www.spartaperformance.com/ARHeaderInstall.htm

Also, if you're looking to 'rent' the cam swap tools, contact Freedom Racing Tool & Die. He (sorry, forgot name) seems very interested in customer satisfaction. And the video at the bottom of the page makes it look like a follower can be removed in 5 secs. (just remember to make sure the valve goes down with the spring or you could be in trouble).
http://www.shopfreedomracing.com/3V-...39-1175-TD.htm

And of course Brenspeed has always impressed me, will tell you everything you want to know, are very patient, and won't try to sell you something you don't need.

I have a dyno with just the E-force, I'll dyno again after header/cam install. Does anyone want to know the power produced in the intermediary step (s/c and headers) or (s/c and cam). I'd like to get everything installed at one time, but may just get lazy and stop after one install and do the intermediary dyno.

I'll be doing the install myself, so any suggestions/recommendations will be appreciated, plan to do the install this weekend.

Thanks for any input.

Blacksmoke

I don't know where you heard headers and cams together wont give much power.
That is B.S.!
Especially if you have a supercharger!

Let me give you a little hint here....my Ford Racing Hot Rod Cams
with BBK long tubes gave me a 46RWHP gain.
That is WITHOUT the supercharger or the blower cam.

Simon1

Think of your engine as "PUMP". It pumps air and fuel in and pumps the results out. Anything you can do to ease the flow of both into the motor and out of the motor, makes it run more efficent and with more power.

Scavenging is effecting this by creating a sucking motion. If you have an air compressor with a tool that blows only air out the end of it for cleaning hard to reach areas, chances are it has two small holes just prior to the opening. The two small holes act as a feeder for more air to enter the air stream from the compressed air sucking the other air in. Cover the holes with your finger and feel the air flow, then feel without. It almost doubles. Equal length headers have this scavenging effect which is like letting one exhaust pulse pull the next out of the cylinder head.

Throck!

I have a peak hp (corrected) of 430 hp @ 5700-redline (goes flat after 5700) and peak torque of 409 hp around 3500rpm-5000rpm (can't believe how flat these curves are, variable timing works).

Extrapolating from your +49hp (n/a) numbers, that would bring me to the danger point on my engine (458tq, with lots of assumptions). Though I don't get into boost nearly as much as I thought I would, but it's fun getting on the interstate and passing people. Also, I'm at 6100' elevation, so I have an extra wide safety margin (365hp/347tq uncorrected).
But I'm F/I so my gains will be more, though not sure by how much. I'll get some real world dyno numbers (maybe next weekend), since theory doesn't always equate to real world.

Any news on if there are any special run-in procedures on the 3v engine cams?
http://www.cranecams.com.au/pdfs/CAM...0PROCEDURE.pdf - step #10

Background on durability question: I knew a guy who put a vortech on his 05 mustang and somehow spun a lobe (pressed on) on a stock cam, and had to get an aftermarket set (unless he was just telling stories to his co-workers on why he 'had to' buy different cams). If I'm understanding correctly aftermarket cams are just chunks of metal ground into shape, so the cam will break before a lobe spins out of place.

Simon1, I guess my biggest concern is: Headers/cams will ease flow, making it easier on the rods on exhaust stroke, but at the same time increase power. Will these two even out the stress on the rods? Will higher flow decrease stress more than more hp will increase stress, for a net loss?

gorockies

You are at 6100' above sea level in Wyoming, and you dynoed at 430 corrected for sea level....Which means you are probably somewhere around 350-375 uncorrected, or actual horsepower. You are nowhere near the danger zone, as long as you have a good tune. I live in Denver, and speak from experience from high altitude. Corrected numbers mean nothing as far as how much power you're actually making. You're making 350-375 actual, and with cams & headers, you might be in the low 400's actual hp. Which would still give you another 50-75hp of actual, or uncorrected room. You'll be fine, just make sure the tune is cool. You could probably even pulley down your blower with the headers to make another 20-25 more hp, and do so making less boost because of the headers. We are at a huge disadvantage with our altitudes. I have a Whipple HO with a 2.8" pulley making 11lbs of boost, and all is well. I know a guy making high 400's with a Whipple, cams, headers, and smaller blower pulley...trapping low 120's and he is fine as well.

Throck!

Uncorrected, I'm making 365 hp/347 ft lb.
I do make random trips to Lincoln to visit friends and to Vegas to visit family...which is why I'm worried about corrected numbers (gotta show off for friends).
Though I'll still be down about 5% power at 1176' (Lincoln).
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/default/pres_at_alt

I managed to install the headers and cams last weekend. The headers are much more difficult to install than I'd hoped, took all day (9:00-6:30 without breaks, my fingers stopped working at one point). Now the steering sector (gearbox) seems to have a little slack. (Hmmmm, never touched that) I've checked the steering shaft and it's solid with the stearing wheel. The tip about the 13mm bendy ratcheting wrench was very beneficial... lots of bolts under there are 13 mm and hard to get to.

The cams installed much easier than I expected. About 1 hour / side. The hardest part was removing the cam covers as I didn't completely move all the wires (didn't want to remove alternator and starter leads).

As I have the frpp mufflers (perforated pipe things), I'm basically running straight pipes now. It is super loud...I scared a 2 yr old girl coming out of a local store as I idled by, she ran back in the store.
I have magnaflows on order now. Wish I'd have known, I would have ordered them with the headers/cams. It's not even fun to drive it's so loud, I haven't really opened it up to see if it feels more powerful.

I'll try to get it dyno'd again Saturday to see how much more power the new toys add.

Throck!

So everything is installed and Dyno'd. It's at 454 rwhp (though the second dyno is in mph instead of rpm). I can post if anyone has any interest. It seems like my fuel economy has gone down some, and sometimes likes to die when the rpm is coming down with the clutch in.

The Magnaflows worked wonders for the sound. They fit close to perfect.

To answer my original questions:

1. Is there a break-in routine for 3V cams like older V8s?
--I think this is only for old flat tappet lifter cams. I haven't seen any break-in procedures for any other roller cams. I just smeared the cam lube on anything that moves/rotates, didn't do any break-in procedure.
2. Do aftermarket cams last as long as stock (if installed and run correctly)?
--Don't know yet.
3. Why do you need to remove 3 followers on each side before you remove the cams? To eliminate binding/breakage while lifting bearing caps?
--To remove tension on the followers and eliminate bind while loosening/tightening bearing caps.
4. Does anyone have any knowledge of fuel economy after installing these cams?
--Seems like less so far. Though the display shows up to 35 mpg at times (resetting avg mpg on display while driving). I'm looking into hills/wind as possible variables.

hammeron

glad everything went well with the installs, now go out
and enjoy the new sweet sound.

outceltj

I have a saleen supercharger with the detroit rocker cams. My gas mileage has suffered but honestly who cares. But just around town i get about 14 and probably around 19 to 20 on the highway. My car has died only twice since I have had everything installed. So no big concern there. However it does idle up and down for just a bit before it lines out. I love it

Simon1

YOur aftermarket cams will last forever.

If your car dies with clutch in or out, it's needs more tuning.