Cold Air Tuning?
08-07-2006, 05:05 PM
#21
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Posts: 152
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
Yea man. This guy representing Summit was very misinformed. What you said is totally true. I talked to Brad if you do end up calling them you might get this guy lol. But if you think about it, there must be some reason for Summit Racing to come out with a totally new product tuned for cold air intake systems. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, but they must have had a good reason to spend this money on making a new product.
08-07-2006, 05:17 PM
#24
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 730
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
ORIGINAL: Ecstasy
lol i want to get my car tuned after i do the mods to it for more hp, i watched them do it on hp tv and it was +11 hp. so how on earth do u tune a 87-93 they dont sell the predator thing for our models.
lol i want to get my car tuned after i do the mods to it for more hp, i watched them do it on hp tv and it was +11 hp. so how on earth do u tune a 87-93 they dont sell the predator thing for our models.
08-07-2006, 05:28 PM
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,834
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
About the MAF.... 945.0, I would look on ebay or the classifieds...dirt cheap for a stocker. Also, call jdsperformance.com or PMAS and ask them why they offer different tunes. I'd hook you up w/ my old one but I sold it all for $20 a while back.
VRI, I understand what you're saying about the MAF adjusting to the amount of air, but that will only hold true to a certian point. The stock MAF will have set limitations and perameters to which it can perform its calculations....the change to a CAI may push the stock MAF to it's limits or cause errors in the calculations due to the changes from the stock airflow. I may be mistaken....I just agree w/ you guys that they wouldn't waste the $ on R&D if it didn't serve a purpose.
08-07-2006, 08:30 PM
#27
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Posts: 152
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
Well I have 24 lb. injectors, so a stock meter wouldnt work. I could get the 94 Cobra MAF because they came with 24 lb. injectors i believe. But finding that online for my year isnt going to be easy because its so specific. And I probably call Summit again just too hopefully clarify the whole situation, but I highly doubt the tech rep at Summit will have an answer for me.
08-08-2006, 12:24 AM
#28
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
ORIGINAL: 94GT5.0
Well I have 24 lb. injectors, so a stock meter wouldnt work. I could get the 94 Cobra MAF because they came with 24 lb. injectors i believe. But finding that online for my year isnt going to be easy because its so specific. And I probably call Summit again just too hopefully clarify the whole situation, but I highly doubt the tech rep at Summit will have an answer for me.
Well I have 24 lb. injectors, so a stock meter wouldnt work. I could get the 94 Cobra MAF because they came with 24 lb. injectors i believe. But finding that online for my year isnt going to be easy because its so specific. And I probably call Summit again just too hopefully clarify the whole situation, but I highly doubt the tech rep at Summit will have an answer for me.
The stock MAF's were not calibrated to the injector size the way the aftermarket meters were.
You could use a Cobra MAF, 24lb injectors, and a cobra computer. I think that is overkill though.
There is not any significant andvantage to swapping to a cobra puter.
Can you clarify what it is you do need?
I think you had an aftermarket MAF (from Pro-M/PMAS) and the electronics (MAS) failed?
I guess I missed that part of the thread
jason
08-08-2006, 12:44 AM
#29
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
ORIGINAL: gspfunk
VRI, I understand what you're saying about the MAF adjusting to the amount of air, but that will only hold true to a certian point. The stock MAF will have set limitations and perameters to which it can perform its calculations....the change to a CAI may push the stock MAF to it's limits or cause errors in the calculations due to the changes from the stock airflow. I may be mistaken....I just agree w/ you guys that they wouldn't waste the $ on R&D if it didn't serve a purpose.
VRI, I understand what you're saying about the MAF adjusting to the amount of air, but that will only hold true to a certian point. The stock MAF will have set limitations and perameters to which it can perform its calculations....the change to a CAI may push the stock MAF to it's limits or cause errors in the calculations due to the changes from the stock airflow. I may be mistaken....I just agree w/ you guys that they wouldn't waste the $ on R&D if it didn't serve a purpose.
I see what you are getting at, but those calculations (known as KAMRF's (keep alive memory reference) or LTFT (long term fuel trims)) are done in the computer, not the MAF.
There is an Adaptive Strategy that the EEC uses to compensate for the slight variations in sensor outputs. For example the O2 sensor outputs will change over the years when the sensors age, or the MAF output may change due to the wire becoming dirty. The Adaptive Strategy applies a multiplier to the Fuel Injector Pulse Width calculations. A KAMRF value of 1 will not change the injector pulse width. A KAMRF of 1.1 will increase the injector pulse width. A KAMRF of .9 will decrease the pulse width.
The upper limit of the KAMRFs is about +/-12.5%. Or in other words 1.125 to .875.
If the fuel metering is still out of range at these extremes, then the computer cannot adjust, and the car remains rich/lean.
Probably more detail than was needed, but this is an interesting topic.
I guess my point is that the MAF only registers the air that is incoming. It does not matter what the velocity or temperature of the air is. The MAF voltage output should be the same.
EDIT:
I am not positive of the cost of a dyno tune (as I tune myself), but I suspect it would work out that the first dyno tune and the purchase of a tweecer (or PMS or Moates.net gear) would be the same. Having to go back to the dyno tuner for a Re-tune would start to make the professional dyno tuner more expensive.
If you are interested in how the EEC works then the tweecer will present a fun opportunity to learn. Most will say that the PMS is easier to start tuning with though.
I can't say as I have never used the PMS.
jason
08-08-2006, 04:58 AM
#30
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 13,396
RE: Cold Air Tuning?
i don't turst ebay i know to many people that have been screwed on ebay and i definately would rtust buying any electronics off ebay on top of that. in other words i guess i pay a little more knowing that i am getting something that will work straight from the factory and not risk buying something from the 8th party
ORIGINAL: gspfunk
Much cheaper from a retailer on Ebay.....FYI.
About the MAF.... 945.0, I would look on ebay or the classifieds...dirt cheap for a stocker. Also, call jdsperformance.com or PMAS and ask them why they offer different tunes. I'd hook you up w/ my old one but I sold it all for $20 a while back.
VRI, I understand what you're saying about the MAF adjusting to the amount of air, but that will only hold true to a certian point. The stock MAF will have set limitations and perameters to which it can perform its calculations....the change to a CAI may push the stock MAF to it's limits or cause errors in the calculations due to the changes from the stock airflow. I may be mistaken....I just agree w/ you guys that they wouldn't waste the $ on R&D if it didn't serve a purpose.
About the MAF.... 945.0, I would look on ebay or the classifieds...dirt cheap for a stocker. Also, call jdsperformance.com or PMAS and ask them why they offer different tunes. I'd hook you up w/ my old one but I sold it all for $20 a while back.
VRI, I understand what you're saying about the MAF adjusting to the amount of air, but that will only hold true to a certian point. The stock MAF will have set limitations and perameters to which it can perform its calculations....the change to a CAI may push the stock MAF to it's limits or cause errors in the calculations due to the changes from the stock airflow. I may be mistaken....I just agree w/ you guys that they wouldn't waste the $ on R&D if it didn't serve a purpose.