Engine question?
08-09-2006, 11:51 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,986
RE: Engine question?
Vristang, Im going to have to disagree with you on a couple of points. EVen if you already have a car thats EFI, it will in no way shape or form be cheaper to build a car of the same power as a carbed setup plain and simple. The cost advantage comes down to the intake mainly. On a carbed car all you need is the actual intake manifold (up tp $250), its one piece that the carb bolts to, and a carb(+/- 350). ANd depending on how much HP youre planning on running a fuel pump. On a EFI car, youll need the intake, 2 pieces upper and lower, bigger injectors, fuel pump, throttle body, fuel pressure regulator (dependant on HP), and youll need to retune the compter. Im not sure on prices on the EFI stuff, but Ive seen some intake setups in the thousands of dollars, namly edelbrocks victor intake. Not to mention retuning your compter EVERY time you do some silly little mod to it.
I never said EFI was more difficult, I actually think its easier cuz it tells you whats wrong with it. With a carbed car you might actually have to know something about cars and how they work in order to diagnose them. I have TONS of EFI experience (Im a certified tech).
Yes EFI gets better milage, yes its easier to tune, but its damn expensive. For literally half the money you can make a car thats A LOT faster. When my stang was my DD, I never had any problems starting it, even at -20 temps. My gas milage isnt bad as long as I stay out of it. That and throttle response with a carb is instant, as opposed to EFI where I dont care how good your tune is, its not instant.
And teh reason racers went with fuel injection is mainly forced induction, like I said before carbs dont like gettin lots of air pushed through them, messes all sorts of things up.
-P.
I never said EFI was more difficult, I actually think its easier cuz it tells you whats wrong with it. With a carbed car you might actually have to know something about cars and how they work in order to diagnose them. I have TONS of EFI experience (Im a certified tech).
Yes EFI gets better milage, yes its easier to tune, but its damn expensive. For literally half the money you can make a car thats A LOT faster. When my stang was my DD, I never had any problems starting it, even at -20 temps. My gas milage isnt bad as long as I stay out of it. That and throttle response with a carb is instant, as opposed to EFI where I dont care how good your tune is, its not instant.
And teh reason racers went with fuel injection is mainly forced induction, like I said before carbs dont like gettin lots of air pushed through them, messes all sorts of things up.
-P.
08-10-2006, 12:00 AM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 1,082
RE: Engine question?
racers have computer s on board and can tune a efi in a few min..on a carb setup if done right takes longer specially if timing is way off...efi hook up a puter and push a few buttons and whala
08-10-2006, 10:43 AM
#14
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: Engine question?
ORIGINAL: P Zero
Yeah but how much is the software??
_p.
Yeah but how much is the software??
_p.
Moates.net offers some tuning hardware/software which may be slightly cheaper (?)
However this is not really needed for most street cars.
It is only when using a high duration/overlap cam that a tuner is really needed.
The Ford A9* computers are actually pretty decent.
Most street cars really don't NEED a tune.
08-10-2006, 11:08 AM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: Engine question?
ORIGINAL: P Zero
Vristang, Im going to have to disagree with you on a couple of points. EVen if you already have a car thats EFI, it will in no way shape or form be cheaper to build a car of the same power as a carbed setup plain and simple. The cost advantage comes down to the intake mainly. On a carbed car all you need is the actual intake manifold (up tp $250), its one piece that the carb bolts to, and a carb(+/- 350). ANd depending on how much HP youre planning on running a fuel pump. On a EFI car, youll need the intake, 2 pieces upper and lower, bigger injectors, fuel pump, throttle body, fuel pressure regulator (dependant on HP), and youll need to retune the compter. Im not sure on prices on the EFI stuff, but Ive seen some intake setups in the thousands of dollars, namly edelbrocks victor intake. Not to mention retuning your compter EVERY time you do some silly little mod to it.
I never said EFI was more difficult, I actually think its easier cuz it tells you whats wrong with it. With a carbed car you might actually have to know something about cars and how they work in order to diagnose them. I have TONS of EFI experience (Im a certified tech).
Yes EFI gets better milage, yes its easier to tune, but its damn expensive. For literally half the money you can make a car thats A LOT faster. When my stang was my DD, I never had any problems starting it, even at -20 temps. My gas milage isnt bad as long as I stay out of it. That and throttle response with a carb is instant, as opposed to EFI where I dont care how good your tune is, its not instant.
And teh reason racers went with fuel injection is mainly forced induction, like I said before carbs dont like gettin lots of air pushed through them, messes all sorts of things up.
-P.
Vristang, Im going to have to disagree with you on a couple of points. EVen if you already have a car thats EFI, it will in no way shape or form be cheaper to build a car of the same power as a carbed setup plain and simple. The cost advantage comes down to the intake mainly. On a carbed car all you need is the actual intake manifold (up tp $250), its one piece that the carb bolts to, and a carb(+/- 350). ANd depending on how much HP youre planning on running a fuel pump. On a EFI car, youll need the intake, 2 pieces upper and lower, bigger injectors, fuel pump, throttle body, fuel pressure regulator (dependant on HP), and youll need to retune the compter. Im not sure on prices on the EFI stuff, but Ive seen some intake setups in the thousands of dollars, namly edelbrocks victor intake. Not to mention retuning your compter EVERY time you do some silly little mod to it.
I never said EFI was more difficult, I actually think its easier cuz it tells you whats wrong with it. With a carbed car you might actually have to know something about cars and how they work in order to diagnose them. I have TONS of EFI experience (Im a certified tech).
Yes EFI gets better milage, yes its easier to tune, but its damn expensive. For literally half the money you can make a car thats A LOT faster. When my stang was my DD, I never had any problems starting it, even at -20 temps. My gas milage isnt bad as long as I stay out of it. That and throttle response with a carb is instant, as opposed to EFI where I dont care how good your tune is, its not instant.
And teh reason racers went with fuel injection is mainly forced induction, like I said before carbs dont like gettin lots of air pushed through them, messes all sorts of things up.
-P.
I think we need to agree on a power level because we may be talking about 2 completely different cars (which is pretty common for this discussion).
When converting from efi to a carb, some other parts need to be purchased, as the fuel system needs to be changed.
My point is that a decent amount of power can be made with a home ported heads/intake/TB from an Explorer.
I have not priced them on ebay recently, but I think the parts could be found for ~ $300
stock 19lb injectors should be able to handle 300hp.
I just cracked open the recent Summit catalog, and most carbs seem to be over $500?
The difficulty comments I made were not meant to be directed at you.
I have seen this topic come up on other forums, and complexity of efi is always a major argument against it.
I guess I just want to say watch the prices of all the parts that will be needed for each route.
jason
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