PCV sys. eliminated, NEED HELP BAD!!!
02-03-2007, 12:29 PM
#21
The Rogue Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland Sucka's!!
Posts: 21,918
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
Here's a lil info on the pcv system...................
Description: The crankcase ventilation system, often called positive crankcase ventilation (PCV), consists of a PCV valve or metered orifice (calibrated opening), its vacuum hose or line, a supply hose providing air into the crankcase, and on some applications, a breather filter to clean the air provided to the supply hose.
Purpose: The purpose of the PCV valve is to regulate the flow of crankcase fumes into the intake manifold where they can be burned. Prior to 1963, cars had no PCV and used road draft tubes that just left the hydrocarbon emissions from the crankcase out into the open air. The PCV valve also has a secondary role as a check valve, to prevent flow back into the crankcase. This prevents potential ignition of the crankcase fumes, should the engine backfire. The PCV system is also crucial for to proper engine sealing. The system alleviates crankcase pressure, which can push out on seals and gaskets, contributing to oil leaks.
Maintenance Tips/Suggestions: Often times, the PCV system gets completely overlooked during routine maintenance. This is unfortunate, because PCV faults often mimic problems in other areas. Check your owner�s manual for PCV maintenance intervals and replace the valve as recommended. Oil leaks are one clue of a faulty PCV system. Leaking valve cover gaskets and rear main seals are but a few examples. If the PCV system isn't operating correctly, crankcase pressure can build and force oil past gaskets and seals that would have otherwise been OK. Drivability problems can also result from the PCV system. Hesitation and surging can occur if the wrong valve is used or there�s a leak in the PCV vacuum hose. You can perform a quick visual check of the PCV system, but it can be tough to see certain parts because of today�s crammed engine compartments. With the engine off, check the PCV hose by looking for soft spots, as well as for signs of cracking and swelling. Also make sure that the PCV valve is properly seated in its grommet. Inspect the breather filter and the area inside the air filter housing for oil. Oil in the breather filter may be a clue to gasket leaks in the crankcase or the presence of excessive blowby gases in the crankcase. If a basic visual check doesn�t offer any clues and you suspect a problem with the PCV system, take your car to a professional service technician.
Description: The crankcase ventilation system, often called positive crankcase ventilation (PCV), consists of a PCV valve or metered orifice (calibrated opening), its vacuum hose or line, a supply hose providing air into the crankcase, and on some applications, a breather filter to clean the air provided to the supply hose.
Purpose: The purpose of the PCV valve is to regulate the flow of crankcase fumes into the intake manifold where they can be burned. Prior to 1963, cars had no PCV and used road draft tubes that just left the hydrocarbon emissions from the crankcase out into the open air. The PCV valve also has a secondary role as a check valve, to prevent flow back into the crankcase. This prevents potential ignition of the crankcase fumes, should the engine backfire. The PCV system is also crucial for to proper engine sealing. The system alleviates crankcase pressure, which can push out on seals and gaskets, contributing to oil leaks.
Maintenance Tips/Suggestions: Often times, the PCV system gets completely overlooked during routine maintenance. This is unfortunate, because PCV faults often mimic problems in other areas. Check your owner�s manual for PCV maintenance intervals and replace the valve as recommended. Oil leaks are one clue of a faulty PCV system. Leaking valve cover gaskets and rear main seals are but a few examples. If the PCV system isn't operating correctly, crankcase pressure can build and force oil past gaskets and seals that would have otherwise been OK. Drivability problems can also result from the PCV system. Hesitation and surging can occur if the wrong valve is used or there�s a leak in the PCV vacuum hose. You can perform a quick visual check of the PCV system, but it can be tough to see certain parts because of today�s crammed engine compartments. With the engine off, check the PCV hose by looking for soft spots, as well as for signs of cracking and swelling. Also make sure that the PCV valve is properly seated in its grommet. Inspect the breather filter and the area inside the air filter housing for oil. Oil in the breather filter may be a clue to gasket leaks in the crankcase or the presence of excessive blowby gases in the crankcase. If a basic visual check doesn�t offer any clues and you suspect a problem with the PCV system, take your car to a professional service technician.
02-03-2007, 04:34 PM
#23
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,768
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: 5.0stanger
I may be off, but the only difference froma breather to a pcv system is that the pcv circulated freash air into the crank case and the breather allows pressure out. I don't think you will have pressure issues ...just don't use a breather and pcv at the same times...one or the other.
I may be off, but the only difference froma breather to a pcv system is that the pcv circulated freash air into the crank case and the breather allows pressure out. I don't think you will have pressure issues ...just don't use a breather and pcv at the same times...one or the other.
02-03-2007, 04:41 PM
#24
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,768
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: 90Lxstanger
Im sorry but i dont know where that bolt is. Im guessing the drivers side, but dont know. So the breather cap wont relieve enough pressure? or not....... I was tol to put a regular cap back on it, but with the pcg eliminated, the last owner tol me to put the breather back on it to Relieve pressure.................so does that mean leavin he bolt out or what? and no the oil isnt really foamny at all, just the filler tube, which when i pop the hood, it drops water the the vents down on the breather cap, which that is y i was gonna put a regular cap on it........
and thanks again. i dont know too much about engines.... trying to learn what i can while i can
ORIGINAL: Twisted
If I were you, I'd pull that bolt out of your intake manifold...the one where the pcv valve should be. Even if you can't rig up a proper pcv system right away, you still want to relieve the pressure in your crankcase. If that valve cover breather is where the oil fill cap used to be, I'd put a fill cap back on it. You may lose some oil from the back of your intake once you pull the bolt out, but it's better than having no ventilation.
As for the foaming, frothing oil, I don't think anything causes oil to foam besides water. When you check or drain your oil, does the oil look foamy?
If I were you, I'd pull that bolt out of your intake manifold...the one where the pcv valve should be. Even if you can't rig up a proper pcv system right away, you still want to relieve the pressure in your crankcase. If that valve cover breather is where the oil fill cap used to be, I'd put a fill cap back on it. You may lose some oil from the back of your intake once you pull the bolt out, but it's better than having no ventilation.
As for the foaming, frothing oil, I don't think anything causes oil to foam besides water. When you check or drain your oil, does the oil look foamy?
and thanks again. i dont know too much about engines.... trying to learn what i can while i can
02-05-2007, 12:59 AM
#26
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: PRO50SC
Not true, mine is set up like that.
ORIGINAL: silver91gt
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
Any un-metered air that gets into the intake system is considered a vac leak.
Most guys who have boost and run your type of setup never 'see' any problems. The computer can learn around small leaks.
The better solution would be to use the stock sealed cap, and run the stock hose from the valve cover to the intake tract. The valve cover hose should get fresh air from after the MAF/filter, but before the supercharger...
Just my thoughts...
jason
02-05-2007, 01:08 AM
#27
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,693
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: vristang
With all due respect Pro, that is a vac leak.
Any un-metered air that gets into the intake system is considered a vac leak.
Most guys who have boost and run your type of setup never 'see' any problems. The computer can learn around small leaks.
The better solution would be to use the stock sealed cap, and run the stock hose from the valve cover to the intake tract. The valve cover hose should get fresh air from after the MAF/filter, but before the supercharger...
Just my thoughts...
jason
ORIGINAL: PRO50SC
Not true, mine is set up like that.
ORIGINAL: silver91gt
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
Any un-metered air that gets into the intake system is considered a vac leak.
Most guys who have boost and run your type of setup never 'see' any problems. The computer can learn around small leaks.
The better solution would be to use the stock sealed cap, and run the stock hose from the valve cover to the intake tract. The valve cover hose should get fresh air from after the MAF/filter, but before the supercharger...
Just my thoughts...
jason
Actually, I think that in his setup, the PCV is acting more like a typical breather cap than anything else. A line runs from his passenger side valve cover to a T-fitting behind the intake (instead of going to the TB.) The tubing from the PCV valve also runs into that same T-fitting. The last port on the T-fitting has a hos eattached to it that vents into the atmosphere. Then he has a breather cap on his valve cover as well. The intake and TB has been capped off with vacuum caps... At least I think that is how he has it setup.
So it seems like there is an actual PCV valve installed, but it's not functioning as it normally would. Seems more like a complex breather setup and wouldn't cause any vac leaks... or am I overlooking omething?
02-05-2007, 01:11 AM
#28
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: 90Lxstanger
Well i just found out that myPCV sys. is eliminated. When i take the breather off, thers alot of foam/sludy sh*t around the sides. I know i burn alot off oil. Im working and new job where i drive highway miles-about 100 roundtrip, top off the oil yesterday, and already about 3/4 low. So I dont know if im buring the oil of losing it thorugh blowby?, Im wanting to get the PCV back on there, so im gonna have togo to a junkyard, and maybe off of my bro's 5.0 outta a Mercury.
Any help would be great, and heres a link to Vristangs writeup- http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/pcv...trolissues.htmif you read this, give me your thoughts please
Well i just found out that myPCV sys. is eliminated. When i take the breather off, thers alot of foam/sludy sh*t around the sides. I know i burn alot off oil. Im working and new job where i drive highway miles-about 100 roundtrip, top off the oil yesterday, and already about 3/4 low. So I dont know if im buring the oil of losing it thorugh blowby?, Im wanting to get the PCV back on there, so im gonna have togo to a junkyard, and maybe off of my bro's 5.0 outta a Mercury.
Any help would be great, and heres a link to Vristangs writeup- http://www.freewebs.com/vristang/pcv...trolissues.htmif you read this, give me your thoughts please
The pic in your sig has a Cobra intake.
Ford has admitted to a problem with the baffle on these intakes, which contributes to pcv oil control issues.
If you have a Cobra intake you should call up Ford Racing, and get one of the redesigned baffles...
My suggestion for now is to go back to the stock pcv system, as Ford installed it.
Use a pcv, pcv screen, and good quality grommet.
It is also a good idea to install a separator in the pcv hose, between the pcv and intake. The separator will fill with oil, if oil is indeed getting past the pcv.
The same thing can be done with the TB/VC hose, but most folks use carb style fuel filters for this application.
The major advantage of a closed pcv system (as Ford designed our cars), is that fresh air is circulated through the crankcase. The fresh air is able to 'clean' the fumes out of the crankcase, effectively increasing the life of the oil. Sludge formation is reduced.
If possible we should stay close to the Ford system for this reason.
My opinions on the matter,
jason
02-05-2007, 01:14 AM
#29
The Rogue Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland Sucka's!!
Posts: 21,918
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: samseed101
I could be wrong but I don't think it's a vac leak in his situation. If I recall correctly, he has it setup so that the PCV actually vents into the atmosphere instead of back into the upper intake. If the air was being recirculated and fresh air was being introduced to the crankcase, then there would be a problem. But since the air is not being recirculated and burned, the unmetered air isn't an issue.
Actually, I think that in his setup, the PCV is acting more like a typical breather cap than anything else. A line runs from his passenger side valve cover to a T-fitting behind the intake (instead of going to the TB.) The tubing from the PCV valve also runs into that same T-fitting. The last port on the T-fitting has a hos eattached to it that vents into the atmosphere. Then he has a breather cap on his valve cover as well. The intake and TB has been capped off with vacuum caps... At least I think that is how he has it setup.
So it seems like there is an actual PCV valve installed, but it's not functioning as it normally would. Seems more like a complex breather setup and wouldn't cause any vac leaks... or am I overlooking omething?
ORIGINAL: vristang
With all due respect Pro, that is a vac leak.
Any un-metered air that gets into the intake system is considered a vac leak.
Most guys who have boost and run your type of setup never 'see' any problems. The computer can learn around small leaks.
The better solution would be to use the stock sealed cap, and run the stock hose from the valve cover to the intake tract. The valve cover hose should get fresh air from after the MAF/filter, but before the supercharger...
Just my thoughts...
jason
ORIGINAL: PRO50SC
Not true, mine is set up like that.
ORIGINAL: silver91gt
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
the pcv pulls the crankcase pressure back into the intake, if you use a pcv and a breather cap you create a big vaacum leak
Any un-metered air that gets into the intake system is considered a vac leak.
Most guys who have boost and run your type of setup never 'see' any problems. The computer can learn around small leaks.
The better solution would be to use the stock sealed cap, and run the stock hose from the valve cover to the intake tract. The valve cover hose should get fresh air from after the MAF/filter, but before the supercharger...
Just my thoughts...
jason
Actually, I think that in his setup, the PCV is acting more like a typical breather cap than anything else. A line runs from his passenger side valve cover to a T-fitting behind the intake (instead of going to the TB.) The tubing from the PCV valve also runs into that same T-fitting. The last port on the T-fitting has a hos eattached to it that vents into the atmosphere. Then he has a breather cap on his valve cover as well. The intake and TB has been capped off with vacuum caps... At least I think that is how he has it setup.
So it seems like there is an actual PCV valve installed, but it's not functioning as it normally would. Seems more like a complex breather setup and wouldn't cause any vac leaks... or am I overlooking omething?
02-05-2007, 01:25 AM
#30
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,693
RE: PCV sys. eliminated, is engine being hurt?
ORIGINAL: PRO50SC
[/quote]
Sad part is... I know more about how yours is setup than I do about my own right now! LoL. Got the entire top end apart and it's a freaking mess. But I'll be there soon
