tps voltage question
03-19-2008, 10:48 AM
#11
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 580
RE: tps voltage question
how do u get a reading... i tried the other day.... I guess i stick a needle into the wire itself... and then touch the mulitmeter's neg. and pos. to the correct wires' needle....... u know what i mean?
03-19-2008, 01:25 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,222
RE: tps voltage question
1. Turn the key on
2. Put the + multimeter to the Green Wire on the TPS......
3. Then put the - multimeter to the Black Wire on the TPS......(Some say not to use a normal ground, but use the ground for the TPS)
4. Take the reading........
2. Put the + multimeter to the Green Wire on the TPS......
3. Then put the - multimeter to the Black Wire on the TPS......(Some say not to use a normal ground, but use the ground for the TPS)
4. Take the reading........
03-19-2008, 02:01 PM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, Seattle
Posts: 551
RE: tps voltage question
I have tried to bring this up in a subtle manner before, but no one ever seems to pay any attention.
So,
Now I am going to be a little more up front about it... we'll see if some discussion can come from this...
Ignorance...
The tps does not need to be adjusted to be .99v
As long as the tps setting is within the ecu's acceptable limits, the idle voltage does not matter.
Please explain how the ecu uses the tps signal so that the tps can cause a 'jerk or shimmy'
Quick answer... it can't...
BINGO!!!!!! We have a winner!!
The car still idles poorly, because idle quality isn't affected by the tps idle setting... (as long as the idle voltage is within the acceptable range)
Again, can you elaborate on how the ecu REQUIRES the tps base idle output to be between .95v and .99v????????
Again,
I have tried to bring this up before in a polite way, but no one seemed to acknowledge what I was saying...
By all means... let's discuss this....
While I am on the rant... I think the sticky on 'setting the tps' here should be sent to trash bin...
jason
So,
Now I am going to be a little more up front about it... we'll see if some discussion can come from this...
ORIGINAL: aode08
.99 set it, key on, engine off, beware as you tighten it down, voltage will increase.
so set to like .95 then as you finally tighten down, it should be dead on .99
.99 set it, key on, engine off, beware as you tighten it down, voltage will increase.
so set to like .95 then as you finally tighten down, it should be dead on .99
The tps does not need to be adjusted to be .99v
As long as the tps setting is within the ecu's acceptable limits, the idle voltage does not matter.
ORIGINAL: aode08
at 1.18, the ecm thinks your accelerator cable is at a certain point and will do wierd things like that, jerk or shimmy.
at 1.18, the ecm thinks your accelerator cable is at a certain point and will do wierd things like that, jerk or shimmy.
Quick answer... it can't...
ORIGINAL: CantStopTheFox...
Mine is at .99, and it still idles like sh*t[:@]
Mine is at .99, and it still idles like sh*t[:@]
The car still idles poorly, because idle quality isn't affected by the tps idle setting... (as long as the idle voltage is within the acceptable range)
ORIGINAL: nitrous_bob
you should do your tps...then check iac and adjust idle...then redo the tps then reset the computer
anywhere from .950-.990 is fine really...it's the rare .750 stockers you wanna change
you should do your tps...then check iac and adjust idle...then redo the tps then reset the computer
anywhere from .950-.990 is fine really...it's the rare .750 stockers you wanna change
Again,
I have tried to bring this up before in a polite way, but no one seemed to acknowledge what I was saying...
By all means... let's discuss this....
While I am on the rant... I think the sticky on 'setting the tps' here should be sent to trash bin...
jason
03-19-2008, 02:03 PM
#15
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, Seattle
Posts: 551
RE: tps voltage question
Justification for why I don't like the 'tps sticky' here...
https://mustangforums.com/m_4613249/tm.htm
https://mustangforums.com/m_4613249/tm.htm
03-20-2008, 02:41 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
RE: tps voltage question
Dudeboy, I understand where your coming from 100% and I know who exactly who you are, I noted the same book back in 2005 when I joined here.
This is a miscommunication between acceptable range for the CEL LIGHT AND OPTIMAL OVERALL PREFFERED SETTING FOR BETTER PERFORMANCE.
I also understand that is the range of the ACCEPTABLE TPS curve.
The .99 setting has been found to perform best as the PREFFERED TPS setting.
What is an acceptable range to keep you CEL OFF and a preffered setting are two different things.
But what we all are failing to look at here is throttle ANGLE INPUT, YOU WANT 10* ANGLE at idle = .97-.99 volts min, for optimal performance.
If you have a fox body, go out and experiment a 1.10 v setting, or a low like.90.
Then DRIVE a week , do some WOT's, then slow down fast with the brake. Prepare yourself for a random situations, anything from jeking, to lower performance, running rich or lean etc.
Ford service manuals were meant to allow acceptable driveability and not pioneered, for what IS BEST, but rather what is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM, and it keep warranty and TSB's down.
They could care less about a optimal setting and prefer to use a range, to keep them safe legally.
To make this simple, we are not saying that .99 is a FORD REQUIRED TPS SETTING, but is the best number to be at for overall idle stability and performance characteristics, from the throttle angle, it produces at that voltage to the ECM.
This number is within THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS, and generates a overall AND PROVEN OWNER Preffered Throttle Angle Measurement to the ECM.
We are not giving you .99 as just to give it, we want you to NOT ONLY BE WITHIN A ACCEPTABE RANGE TO KEEP THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT OFF, but also increase overall performance and improve your idle, with that curve
.
This is a miscommunication between acceptable range for the CEL LIGHT AND OPTIMAL OVERALL PREFFERED SETTING FOR BETTER PERFORMANCE.
I also understand that is the range of the ACCEPTABLE TPS curve.
The .99 setting has been found to perform best as the PREFFERED TPS setting.
What is an acceptable range to keep you CEL OFF and a preffered setting are two different things.
But what we all are failing to look at here is throttle ANGLE INPUT, YOU WANT 10* ANGLE at idle = .97-.99 volts min, for optimal performance.
If you have a fox body, go out and experiment a 1.10 v setting, or a low like.90.
Then DRIVE a week , do some WOT's, then slow down fast with the brake. Prepare yourself for a random situations, anything from jeking, to lower performance, running rich or lean etc.
Ford service manuals were meant to allow acceptable driveability and not pioneered, for what IS BEST, but rather what is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM, and it keep warranty and TSB's down.
They could care less about a optimal setting and prefer to use a range, to keep them safe legally.
To make this simple, we are not saying that .99 is a FORD REQUIRED TPS SETTING, but is the best number to be at for overall idle stability and performance characteristics, from the throttle angle, it produces at that voltage to the ECM.
This number is within THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS, and generates a overall AND PROVEN OWNER Preffered Throttle Angle Measurement to the ECM.
We are not giving you .99 as just to give it, we want you to NOT ONLY BE WITHIN A ACCEPTABE RANGE TO KEEP THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT OFF, but also increase overall performance and improve your idle, with that curve
.
03-20-2008, 03:25 PM
#17
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 3,926
RE: tps voltage question
ORIGINAL: aode08
Dudeboy, I understand where your coming from 100% and I know who exactly who you are, I noted the same book back in 2005 when I joined here.
This is a miscommunication between acceptable range for the CEL LIGHT AND OPTIMAL OVERALL PREFFERED SETTING.
I also understand that is the range of the ACCEPTABLE TPS curve.
The .99 setting has been found to perform best as the PREFFERED TPS setting.
What is an acceptable range to keep you CEL OFF and a preffered setting are two different things.
But what we all are failing to look at here is throttle ANGLE INPUT, YOU WANT 10* ANGLE at idle = .97-.99 volts min, for optimal performance.
If you have a fox body, go out and experiment a 1.10 v setting, or a low like.90.
Then DRIVE a week , do some WOT's, then slow down fast with the brake. Prepare yourself for a random situations, anything from jeking, to lower performance, running rich or lean etc.
Ford service manuals were meant to allow acceptable driveability and not pioneered, for what IS BEST, but rather what is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM, and it keep warranty and TSB's down.
They could care less about a optimal setting and prefer to use a range, to keep them safe legally.
To make this simple, we are not saying that .99 is a FORD REQUIRED TPS SETTING, but is the best number to be at for overall idle stability and performance characteristics, from the throttle angle, it produces at that voltage to the ECM.
This number is within THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS, and generates a overall AND PROVEN OWNER Preffered Throttle Angle Measurement to the ECM.
We are not giving you .99 as just to give it, we want you to NOT ONLY BE WITHIN A ACCEPTABE RANGE TO KEEP THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT OFF, but also increase overall performance and improve your idle, with that curve.
Dudeboy, I understand where your coming from 100% and I know who exactly who you are, I noted the same book back in 2005 when I joined here.
This is a miscommunication between acceptable range for the CEL LIGHT AND OPTIMAL OVERALL PREFFERED SETTING.
I also understand that is the range of the ACCEPTABLE TPS curve.
The .99 setting has been found to perform best as the PREFFERED TPS setting.
What is an acceptable range to keep you CEL OFF and a preffered setting are two different things.
But what we all are failing to look at here is throttle ANGLE INPUT, YOU WANT 10* ANGLE at idle = .97-.99 volts min, for optimal performance.
If you have a fox body, go out and experiment a 1.10 v setting, or a low like.90.
Then DRIVE a week , do some WOT's, then slow down fast with the brake. Prepare yourself for a random situations, anything from jeking, to lower performance, running rich or lean etc.
Ford service manuals were meant to allow acceptable driveability and not pioneered, for what IS BEST, but rather what is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM, and it keep warranty and TSB's down.
They could care less about a optimal setting and prefer to use a range, to keep them safe legally.
To make this simple, we are not saying that .99 is a FORD REQUIRED TPS SETTING, but is the best number to be at for overall idle stability and performance characteristics, from the throttle angle, it produces at that voltage to the ECM.
This number is within THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS, and generates a overall AND PROVEN OWNER Preffered Throttle Angle Measurement to the ECM.
We are not giving you .99 as just to give it, we want you to NOT ONLY BE WITHIN A ACCEPTABE RANGE TO KEEP THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT OFF, but also increase overall performance and improve your idle, with that curve
.It IS NOT a miscommunication between acceptable range for the CEL LIGHT AND OPTIMAL OVERALL PREFFERED SETTING. ..... the above explanation/statement was written w/out the knowledge of the TPS ratcheting algorithm...... that IS NOT the way the EEC-IV logic works.... here is an excerpt of the TPS logic, and why it is a RICER MYTH.
[align=center]Summarized EEC-IV logic for the TPS......[/align]
The EEC-IV will check for the following:
- Minimum voltage at closed throttle over .49 vdc. , less than .49 and codes 23 and 63 will set as failures.
- Max voltage closed throttle should not exceeed 1.2 vdc, or codes 23 & 53 will set as failures.
- TPS voltage between .5vdc and 1.19 = no codes, TPS
...then
- Closed throttle TPS value is reset by the system to the lowest value read when ignition is turned on every time. Or as explained by the EEC-IV RATCH algorithm:
Quote[/align]The variable RATCH is the output of a ratchet algorithm which continuously seeks the minimum throttle angle corresponding to a CLOSED THROTTLE position. This alleviates the necessity to set the throttle position sensor at an absolute position and compensates for system changes and differences between vehicles. The ratchet algorithm uses filtered throttle position for the determination of RATCH.[/align]- A voltage increase of .04 vdc from the minimum registered will id part throttle status.
- Minimum WOT value of 3.21 vdc (.5 + 2.71) and not higher than actual Voltage REFerence (VREF) generated by the ECM to access WOT strategy.
....This does not include the other registers and functions, the system uses to id acceleration, deceleration, cruise...etc, like:
APT = At Part Throttle flag
Quote[/align]The value of APT is determined by a logic. Briefly, throttle angle breakpoints, in terms of counts, are used to define the CLOSED/PART_THROTTLE and PART/WIDE_OPEN_THROTTLE transitions.[/align]- OLDTP = Previous TP sensor value, counts.
- TAR = Throttle Angle Rate of change, deg/sec.
- TP = Throttle position sensor.
- FN331B = A multiplier as a function of the present throttle angle minus the lowest measured throttle angle (TP - RATCH)
- Etc, etc, etc
Adjusting the TPS is a myth....or more proof is needed?[/align]
The EEC-IV will check for the following:
- Minimum voltage at closed throttle over .49 vdc. , less than .49 and codes 23 and 63 will set as failures.
- Max voltage closed throttle should not exceeed 1.2 vdc, or codes 23 & 53 will set as failures.
- TPS voltage between .5vdc and 1.19 = no codes, TPS
...then- Closed throttle TPS value is reset by the system to the lowest value read when ignition is turned on every time. Or as explained by the EEC-IV RATCH algorithm:
Quote[/align]The variable RATCH is the output of a ratchet algorithm which continuously seeks the minimum throttle angle corresponding to a CLOSED THROTTLE position. This alleviates the necessity to set the throttle position sensor at an absolute position and compensates for system changes and differences between vehicles. The ratchet algorithm uses filtered throttle position for the determination of RATCH.[/align]- A voltage increase of .04 vdc from the minimum registered will id part throttle status.
- Minimum WOT value of 3.21 vdc (.5 + 2.71) and not higher than actual Voltage REFerence (VREF) generated by the ECM to access WOT strategy.
....This does not include the other registers and functions, the system uses to id acceleration, deceleration, cruise...etc, like:APT = At Part Throttle flag
Quote[/align]The value of APT is determined by a logic. Briefly, throttle angle breakpoints, in terms of counts, are used to define the CLOSED/PART_THROTTLE and PART/WIDE_OPEN_THROTTLE transitions.[/align]- OLDTP = Previous TP sensor value, counts.
- TAR = Throttle Angle Rate of change, deg/sec.
- TP = Throttle position sensor.
- FN331B = A multiplier as a function of the present throttle angle minus the lowest measured throttle angle (TP - RATCH)
- Etc, etc, etc
Adjusting the TPS is a myth....or more proof is needed?[/align]
03-20-2008, 03:46 PM
#18
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
RE: tps voltage question
Ive read that and know thats the way it should work .
I would agree by that if it worked physically.
Myself and pleny of others have tried other voltage settings within the allowed range, with variable results.
Several different mustangs and ECM types as well.
Now is your EEC-IV logic for the A9L, P or?, but removing the .99 from the stickies on every mustang forum and magazine will not occur.
I would agree if that logic proved to work in other voltages and real life for optimal performance.
I would agree by that if it worked physically.
Myself and pleny of others have tried other voltage settings within the allowed range, with variable results.
Several different mustangs and ECM types as well.
Now is your EEC-IV logic for the A9L, P or?, but removing the .99 from the stickies on every mustang forum and magazine will not occur.
I would agree if that logic proved to work in other voltages and real life for optimal performance.
03-20-2008, 07:06 PM
#19
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 3,926
RE: tps voltage question
ORIGINAL: aode08
Ive read that and know thats the way it should work .
I would agree by that if it worked physically.
Myself and pleny of others have tried other voltage settings within the allowed range, with variable results.
Several different mustangs and ECM types as well.
Now is your EEC-IV logic for the A9L, P or?, but removing the .99 from the stickies on every mustang forum and magazine will not occur.
I would agree if that logic proved to work in other voltages and real life for optimal performance.
Ive read that and know thats the way it should work .
I would agree by that if it worked physically.
Myself and pleny of others have tried other voltage settings within the allowed range, with variable results.
Several different mustangs and ECM types as well.
Now is your EEC-IV logic for the A9L, P or?, but removing the .99 from the stickies on every mustang forum and magazine will not occur.
I would agree if that logic proved to work in other voltages and real life for optimal performance.
And you're right..... it won't occur, and the reason is that misinformation is not only rampant, but justified.
03-20-2008, 08:29 PM
#20
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 580
RE: tps voltage question
THIS IS THE MOST ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS POST I HAVE SEEN SINCE I JOINED......
POST GONE BAD......
DO YOU GUYS REALIZE THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ****IN TPS VOLTAGE....
JUST SET IT AT THE DAMN FACTORY SETTING AND BE DONE WITH IT.....
nothing can be gained..... except a car that runs or doesn't
POST GONE BAD......
DO YOU GUYS REALIZE THAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT ****IN TPS VOLTAGE....
JUST SET IT AT THE DAMN FACTORY SETTING AND BE DONE WITH IT.....
nothing can be gained..... except a car that runs or doesn't