How to guide for rear gears?
03-23-2011, 10:37 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 263
03-23-2011, 11:57 PM
#12
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: OH
Posts: 829
Although some times the tighter gears are a bad choice, the idea is good but you also can miss your power band and in fact be slower. The powerglide 2 speed works off that principle, makes it a good choice for drag racers
*edit* forgot to mention to the OP
As I said I would just very highly recommend a little assistance with your axle rebuild, you have have worked on cars quite a bit but this is a lot different than anything else. If there is something wrong you will get either a lot of noise, quick wear of the gears or other damage or both. I'm not saying you can't do it, but going into it blind isn't ideal. Just if you do it alone, take your time, follow a guide as much as you possibly can. Get as much info as you can, you can never have too much with this kind of work
Last edited by mustangGT86_05; 03-24-2011 at 12:04 AM.
03-24-2011, 12:50 AM
#13
our mac tool man was a ford tech for 25 years.......got it through him...OTC makes them........I use the tool as a guide, mainly because if you understand how the tool works, I feel it doesn't account for differences in the machined hieght of the pinion, I use a micrometer to measure the highth of the pinion head I'm removing, then compare it to the ford racing one and in most instances where I have installed ford racing gears the tolerances have been with in .001 to .002 and then I use the depth tool to check for the needed shim and most of the time the needed shim is the same as what was on the old pinion. google master housing depth method for 8.8's...this will explain the theroy/assumption better 
fyi, the tool is not cheap, I'm not kidding when I say all the pieces needed, cost me 800.00
fyi, the tool is not cheap, I'm not kidding when I say all the pieces needed, cost me 800.00i just used th eold school trick of using a reamed out pinion bearing to make getting it in and out easier.
holding the flange is a PITA, as is the crush washer, but i didnt end up having any problems with the 3 ive done (#4 for the FFR will be tackled soon).
its a nice thing to wish for, but ud have to start doing a few more to warrant buying one.
still be bitchin to see it in my box lol
03-24-2011, 12:31 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 263
Thanks for the replies. Now after looking over the how to guide and all I have a few questions I'm hoping you can answer.
1. What type of dial indicator should I use and whats the best way to mount it?
2. When checking the tooth contact pattern by using the yellow compound, should the axles be assembled with the c clamps during this process?
3. When testing the contact pattern, how tight should be pinion nut be at this time? The guide says to use the old collapsible washer at this point. Is it suppose to be torqued down or just hand tightened?
4. What do they mean by setting the preload of 16-28 lbs? I have a torque wrench to use for setting the proper torque but I don't fully understand how to set this preload.
The guide says:
"Two numbers are very important in the tightening process. You want to be exerting at least 140 Lb.-ft. of torque on the nut while tightening. Put a torque wrench on just before the bearing slack is gone. The new nut and clean/dry pinion threads should accomplish this.
A pinion shaft with new bearings needs to have a preload of 16-28 lbs-in. Once the slack is gone between the bearings, drag or preload will start to build up on the pinion. Care must be taken not to go too fast on the tightening at this stage, so as not to exceed the 16-28 lbs-in. of torque. Constant checking with a torque wrench should be done, as in Fig. 21."
Does this mean I can tighten the nut down by hand or ratchet and once it starts binding I use a torque wrench to accomplish the 16-28 lbs and once thats done I then tighten to 140lbs?
If not what is missing in this step?
So far this process actually does sound straight forward. It seems like it will be time consuming and I'll likely break it up into two days but so far the most confusing part is the collapsible/crush washer and the preload. The constant assembly/disassembly to get the shim thickness right will probably be the most time consuming.
Again I appreciate the help. Once I have a good understanding about all this I'll attempt to tackle this job. As mentioned, I don't want to go into this blind
Cheapest shop I've found wants $400 to do this job and theres no way I'm paying them that much money to do something I'm confident I can do.
1. What type of dial indicator should I use and whats the best way to mount it?
2. When checking the tooth contact pattern by using the yellow compound, should the axles be assembled with the c clamps during this process?
3. When testing the contact pattern, how tight should be pinion nut be at this time? The guide says to use the old collapsible washer at this point. Is it suppose to be torqued down or just hand tightened?
4. What do they mean by setting the preload of 16-28 lbs? I have a torque wrench to use for setting the proper torque but I don't fully understand how to set this preload.
The guide says:
"Two numbers are very important in the tightening process. You want to be exerting at least 140 Lb.-ft. of torque on the nut while tightening. Put a torque wrench on just before the bearing slack is gone. The new nut and clean/dry pinion threads should accomplish this.
A pinion shaft with new bearings needs to have a preload of 16-28 lbs-in. Once the slack is gone between the bearings, drag or preload will start to build up on the pinion. Care must be taken not to go too fast on the tightening at this stage, so as not to exceed the 16-28 lbs-in. of torque. Constant checking with a torque wrench should be done, as in Fig. 21."
Does this mean I can tighten the nut down by hand or ratchet and once it starts binding I use a torque wrench to accomplish the 16-28 lbs and once thats done I then tighten to 140lbs?
If not what is missing in this step?
So far this process actually does sound straight forward. It seems like it will be time consuming and I'll likely break it up into two days but so far the most confusing part is the collapsible/crush washer and the preload. The constant assembly/disassembly to get the shim thickness right will probably be the most time consuming.
Again I appreciate the help. Once I have a good understanding about all this I'll attempt to tackle this job. As mentioned, I don't want to go into this blind
Cheapest shop I've found wants $400 to do this job and theres no way I'm paying them that much money to do something I'm confident I can do.
03-24-2011, 01:41 PM
#15
D.R. THE PATHETIC DORK
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 30,863
Thanks for the replies. Now after looking over the how to guide and all I have a few questions I'm hoping you can answer.
1. What type of dial indicator should I use and whats the best way to mount it?
2. When checking the tooth contact pattern by using the yellow compound, should the axles be assembled with the c clamps during this process?
3. When testing the contact pattern, how tight should be pinion nut be at this time? The guide says to use the old collapsible washer at this point. Is it suppose to be torqued down or just hand tightened?
4. What do they mean by setting the preload of 16-28 lbs? I have a torque wrench to use for setting the proper torque but I don't fully understand how to set this preload.
The guide says:
"Two numbers are very important in the tightening process. You want to be exerting at least 140 Lb.-ft. of torque on the nut while tightening. Put a torque wrench on just before the bearing slack is gone. The new nut and clean/dry pinion threads should accomplish this.
A pinion shaft with new bearings needs to have a preload of 16-28 lbs-in. Once the slack is gone between the bearings, drag or preload will start to build up on the pinion. Care must be taken not to go too fast on the tightening at this stage, so as not to exceed the 16-28 lbs-in. of torque. Constant checking with a torque wrench should be done, as in Fig. 21."
Does this mean I can tighten the nut down by hand or ratchet and once it starts binding I use a torque wrench to accomplish the 16-28 lbs and once thats done I then tighten to 140lbs?
If not what is missing in this step?
So far this process actually does sound straight forward. It seems like it will be time consuming and I'll likely break it up into two days but so far the most confusing part is the collapsible/crush washer and the preload. The constant assembly/disassembly to get the shim thickness right will probably be the most time consuming.
Again I appreciate the help. Once I have a good understanding about all this I'll attempt to tackle this job. As mentioned, I don't want to go into this blind
Cheapest shop I've found wants $400 to do this job and theres no way I'm paying them that much money to do something I'm confident I can do.
1. What type of dial indicator should I use and whats the best way to mount it?
2. When checking the tooth contact pattern by using the yellow compound, should the axles be assembled with the c clamps during this process?
3. When testing the contact pattern, how tight should be pinion nut be at this time? The guide says to use the old collapsible washer at this point. Is it suppose to be torqued down or just hand tightened?
4. What do they mean by setting the preload of 16-28 lbs? I have a torque wrench to use for setting the proper torque but I don't fully understand how to set this preload.
The guide says:
"Two numbers are very important in the tightening process. You want to be exerting at least 140 Lb.-ft. of torque on the nut while tightening. Put a torque wrench on just before the bearing slack is gone. The new nut and clean/dry pinion threads should accomplish this.
A pinion shaft with new bearings needs to have a preload of 16-28 lbs-in. Once the slack is gone between the bearings, drag or preload will start to build up on the pinion. Care must be taken not to go too fast on the tightening at this stage, so as not to exceed the 16-28 lbs-in. of torque. Constant checking with a torque wrench should be done, as in Fig. 21."
Does this mean I can tighten the nut down by hand or ratchet and once it starts binding I use a torque wrench to accomplish the 16-28 lbs and once thats done I then tighten to 140lbs?
If not what is missing in this step?
So far this process actually does sound straight forward. It seems like it will be time consuming and I'll likely break it up into two days but so far the most confusing part is the collapsible/crush washer and the preload. The constant assembly/disassembly to get the shim thickness right will probably be the most time consuming.
Again I appreciate the help. Once I have a good understanding about all this I'll attempt to tackle this job. As mentioned, I don't want to go into this blind
Cheapest shop I've found wants $400 to do this job and theres no way I'm paying them that much money to do something I'm confident I can do.
2.no
3. to the proper inch lb rotational torque 8-16 in =old bearing, new 16-29 new
4. need a beam type inch lb torque wrench or the proper type that I use = one that measures on a rotational dial.
I don't use a torque wrench, I use a breaker bar, once all the in out movement is gone, I go in slow movements, very tiny and remeasure rotational drag.
Last edited by mjr46; 03-24-2011 at 01:44 PM.
03-24-2011, 03:01 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 263
This is what is confusing me from the "how to guide". Inch lbs. are less than foot lbs. Yet, the guide says you should be exerting 140 Foot lbs. when tightening the pinion nut. Once you get to the point where the slack is out of the bearings the preload or drag will start and it says not to exceed 16-28 Inch lbs which is roughly 2 foot lbs if you convert it.
How do you keep from exceeding 16-28 inch lbs when your already exerting 140 foot lbs which is equal to 1680 inch lbs??
I have to be misunderstanding something here.
How do you keep from exceeding 16-28 inch lbs when your already exerting 140 foot lbs which is equal to 1680 inch lbs??
I have to be misunderstanding something here.
03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
#17
D.R. THE PATHETIC DORK
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 30,863
This is what is confusing me from the "how to guide". Inch lbs. are less than foot lbs. Yet, the guide says you should be exerting 140 Foot lbs. when tightening the pinion nut. Once you get to the point where the slack is out of the bearings the preload or drag will start and it says not to exceed 16-28 Inch lbs which is roughly 2 foot lbs if you convert it.
How do you keep from exceeding 16-28 inch lbs when your already exerting 140 foot lbs which is equal to 1680 inch lbs??
I have to be misunderstanding something here.
How do you keep from exceeding 16-28 inch lbs when your already exerting 140 foot lbs which is equal to 1680 inch lbs??
I have to be misunderstanding something here.
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
#18
D.R. THE PATHETIC DORK
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 30,863
03-24-2011, 04:51 PM
#19
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: OH
Posts: 829
what mjr46 is saying is very true, the tention on the nut itself is completely irrelevant, it's all about the rotation drag when tightening the pinion. As much as I'd like to be of more help, it's been a while since I've been inside an axle, it seems that if you have any further questions mjr46 will be the man to ask. Just if you are unsure of something don't take a chance, take the extra time to ask and make sure, it'll pay off
03-24-2011, 06:38 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 263
Few more questions.
1. Should I use the new shims or old shims for testing backlash and wear pattern and if or once all is good should I use them for the final reassembly?
If I do use the old shims, I'm assuming I check wear pattern and add/remove shims accordingly.
2. When testing the backlash, is it ok to use the old bearings for testing the backlash and wear pattern and just switch to the new bearings once the proper backlash and pattern has been achieved? Or would it be more accurate to use the new bearings throughout the whole phase? I know to save the new nut and crush washer for final assembly.
3. What is the easiest way to safely remove the bearing races inside the housing?
I think I'm starting to understand most of this now. It seems very doable, but I can tell from the constant assembly/disassembly that I will be doing this over my weekend because it isn't going to get done within a day unless I can start early in the morning and not get side tracked
1. Should I use the new shims or old shims for testing backlash and wear pattern and if or once all is good should I use them for the final reassembly?
If I do use the old shims, I'm assuming I check wear pattern and add/remove shims accordingly.
2. When testing the backlash, is it ok to use the old bearings for testing the backlash and wear pattern and just switch to the new bearings once the proper backlash and pattern has been achieved? Or would it be more accurate to use the new bearings throughout the whole phase? I know to save the new nut and crush washer for final assembly.
3. What is the easiest way to safely remove the bearing races inside the housing?
I think I'm starting to understand most of this now. It seems very doable, but I can tell from the constant assembly/disassembly that I will be doing this over my weekend because it isn't going to get done within a day unless I can start early in the morning and not get side tracked
Last edited by stdyhand; 03-24-2011 at 06:40 PM.