Tuning
11-04-2012, 06:54 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Tuning
I am new to American cars however I have sound experience in engine tuning.
I have made 247whp from a 1500c engine motor using a piggy back computer.
I have done some research and the sct programmer seems popular.
When looking through the literature on ignition tuning. It seems that ignition
is only done over a range. This seems similar to what was done for an engine with distributor.
Does the pc software give you more granularity and is air flow taken into account. I.e that tuning table for ignition should have both air flow and rpm.
The fuel tables should be similar.
I would also like to know if changes in the table are transmitted in real time and also if the active cell on the pc is highlighted so that cell can be adjusted.
Are there piggy back ecus for the ford similar to the greedy e-manage ultimate for japanese cars.
I done believe in the concept of custom tunes. In the world of tuning that is a no no. Two similar cars will may different tuning requirements.
I have made 247whp from a 1500c engine motor using a piggy back computer.
I have done some research and the sct programmer seems popular.
When looking through the literature on ignition tuning. It seems that ignition
is only done over a range. This seems similar to what was done for an engine with distributor.
Does the pc software give you more granularity and is air flow taken into account. I.e that tuning table for ignition should have both air flow and rpm.
The fuel tables should be similar.
I would also like to know if changes in the table are transmitted in real time and also if the active cell on the pc is highlighted so that cell can be adjusted.
Are there piggy back ecus for the ford similar to the greedy e-manage ultimate for japanese cars.
I done believe in the concept of custom tunes. In the world of tuning that is a no no. Two similar cars will may different tuning requirements.
11-04-2012, 07:24 PM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Decatur AL
Posts: 823
TONS of people on here are running custom dyno tunes. I run Steeda's 93 octane tune w/ a CAI and am pushing just north of 400 RWHP. If you do not believe in the the concept of custom dyno tuning, you need to take that up with Steeda, AM, Brenspeed, FRPP and a few others that I am sure that I am leaving out.
11-05-2012, 08:36 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Understood. Any response on granularity and the workings of the tuning software. I am trying to understand the flexibility of the sct programmers relative to full after market computers.
The emanage ultimate was good enough to get buy without having to resort to an after market computer.
The emanage ultimate was good enough to get buy without having to resort to an after market computer.
11-05-2012, 10:03 AM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 247
Welcome to the Mustang Forums!
Not doing much tuning, I'm not sure I can answer your questions. It sounds like you have a different approach than much of what goes on here. I look forward to learning more!
Not doing much tuning, I'm not sure I can answer your questions. It sounds like you have a different approach than much of what goes on here. I look forward to learning more!
11-05-2012, 01:47 PM
#5
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SD
Posts: 38
Not all tuning is the same. Knowing the fundamentals is helpful, but these PCM's are quite a bit more complex than you might think. Throttle by wire adds an interesting, unexpected group of new challenges. Plus there are multiple fuel and timing maps that it alternates between. There are many "safety nets" that also can be difficult to work around. The software is fully capable, and granularity is a non-issue. Many experienced tuners are still working on understanding these PCM's, so you'll find a lack of overall support. As far as a "full standalone"...of course that could be an option, but not without many compromises in driveabilty.
11-05-2012, 03:20 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 5
Well none of these videos shows how the tuning files are made. There assume you are given a tuning file which you simply load to the ECU.
My concept of tuning is the actual creation of the tuning files. In none of the literature have I seen fuel or ignition screens.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/sct-x3-po...-2013/p/XCAL3/
My concept of tuning is the actual creation of the tuning files. In none of the literature have I seen fuel or ignition screens.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/sct-x3-po...-2013/p/XCAL3/
11-05-2012, 06:59 PM
#7
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 131
Hello Hoodey,
I know where you are coming from and I'm not sure why the Mustang scene is done this way.
I too used to do my own tuning years ago when I owned my '98 TA. There were several tuning programs for the LS1 cars - HPtuners, EFIlive, etc. and we all tuned our own cars then. There was lots of info shared on the forums on tuning and the learning curve was a bit steep, but through sharing info we learned how to do it. I used EFIlive myself, and it was both fun and challenging logging data over and over, tweaking the tune, finding out what works and doesn't and finally getting that tune dialed in for for the most power and best driveability. I enjoyed the whole process.
When I first got my '08 Stang and wanted to tune it, I found that things were done differently on the Mustang scene for whatever reason ? Nobody seems to tune their own for some reason.
Everbody buys these handheld "tuners" and uploads the tunes to the car. Nobody seems to do their own tuning on these. Agin why I dunno.
The SCT power programmer, Diablosport, etc. are all hand-held "tuners" that are sold for the Mustang. They store like 3 custom tunes and allow you to upload them to the car. The device itself alllow you to modify a very limted amount of parameters such as gear ratios, fan settings, speed, RPM limiters, and a few overall timing & WOT fuel settings.
The custom tunes are written by tuners at the dealers where the SCT or other device are sold, and are loaded into the device when you get it. OR, you can order custom tune files from other vendors which can be sent to you via email, then you can load em on the device, then to your car.
The actual tuning software used to write the tune files for the SCT and other device is sold only to those vendors I think, and is $$$ from what I understand, so it's not like you can really do your own tune file writing for the device. I think SCT only sells the software to approved vendors and not to individuals? Not sure on that.
So obviously they have to write a tune that is well within safe parameters to be able to work on many different cars, since as you know all engines are a little different. So though we are buying a "custom" tune file for the SCT or other device to load into the Mustang, it is not really like a custom dyno tune for your individual vehicle, and to me that's kinda a misnomer. It's custom to some degree, but not really dialed in. So I'm sure some HP is left on the table to keep things safe.
So long story short not sure if you can actually buy software to tune these yourself, and if so there is little support for that and the folks that actually write the tunes for these seem to all by in competition and like to keep thier tuning techniques/secrets to themselves.
Hope this helps explain this some I'm not vey articulate with my wording.
I know where you are coming from and I'm not sure why the Mustang scene is done this way.
I too used to do my own tuning years ago when I owned my '98 TA. There were several tuning programs for the LS1 cars - HPtuners, EFIlive, etc. and we all tuned our own cars then. There was lots of info shared on the forums on tuning and the learning curve was a bit steep, but through sharing info we learned how to do it. I used EFIlive myself, and it was both fun and challenging logging data over and over, tweaking the tune, finding out what works and doesn't and finally getting that tune dialed in for for the most power and best driveability. I enjoyed the whole process.
When I first got my '08 Stang and wanted to tune it, I found that things were done differently on the Mustang scene for whatever reason ? Nobody seems to tune their own for some reason.
Everbody buys these handheld "tuners" and uploads the tunes to the car. Nobody seems to do their own tuning on these. Agin why I dunno.
The SCT power programmer, Diablosport, etc. are all hand-held "tuners" that are sold for the Mustang. They store like 3 custom tunes and allow you to upload them to the car. The device itself alllow you to modify a very limted amount of parameters such as gear ratios, fan settings, speed, RPM limiters, and a few overall timing & WOT fuel settings.
The custom tunes are written by tuners at the dealers where the SCT or other device are sold, and are loaded into the device when you get it. OR, you can order custom tune files from other vendors which can be sent to you via email, then you can load em on the device, then to your car.
The actual tuning software used to write the tune files for the SCT and other device is sold only to those vendors I think, and is $$$ from what I understand, so it's not like you can really do your own tune file writing for the device. I think SCT only sells the software to approved vendors and not to individuals? Not sure on that.
So obviously they have to write a tune that is well within safe parameters to be able to work on many different cars, since as you know all engines are a little different. So though we are buying a "custom" tune file for the SCT or other device to load into the Mustang, it is not really like a custom dyno tune for your individual vehicle, and to me that's kinda a misnomer. It's custom to some degree, but not really dialed in. So I'm sure some HP is left on the table to keep things safe.
So long story short not sure if you can actually buy software to tune these yourself, and if so there is little support for that and the folks that actually write the tunes for these seem to all by in competition and like to keep thier tuning techniques/secrets to themselves.
Hope this helps explain this some I'm not vey articulate with my wording.
Last edited by SilverHoss; 11-05-2012 at 07:05 PM. Reason: spelling
11-05-2012, 08:41 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 5
You did an excellent job.
I did some more research and found this link.
It seems that pro software is required.
I understand most of what is said in the video.There is also a dvd that can
bought. I am not a dealer and I am not an idiot so I hope I can purchase the product.
I did some more research and found this link.
It seems that pro software is required.
I understand most of what is said in the video.There is also a dvd that can
bought. I am not a dealer and I am not an idiot so I hope I can purchase the product.
11-06-2012, 08:19 AM
#9
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SD
Posts: 38
I know what you guys are saying. I've tuned across many platforms...piggy-backs, ECU access, and full standalones. The PCM in the current Mustangs is far more complex than they were back then. Eventually there will be more knowledge about this platform and more tuning software available, but it's too early in the game to make DIY tuning practical at this point.
If you insist on doing it, it's available...and can certainly be done with a little learning curve. But you will have spent a lot more $$, a lot more time, and not likely are going to achieve any better results than finding a competent tuner to help you out. Even a lot of the "canned" tunes can be datalogged and sent back for editing...making them fine tuned for your setup. This car is also closed loop all of the time, even at 100% throttle...so STFT and LTFT will make up for small inconsistencies in fueling.
If you insist on doing it, it's available...and can certainly be done with a little learning curve. But you will have spent a lot more $$, a lot more time, and not likely are going to achieve any better results than finding a competent tuner to help you out. Even a lot of the "canned" tunes can be datalogged and sent back for editing...making them fine tuned for your setup. This car is also closed loop all of the time, even at 100% throttle...so STFT and LTFT will make up for small inconsistencies in fueling.
11-06-2012, 04:06 PM
#10
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Decatur AL
Posts: 823
Sorry HOODEY if I came off as a jerk. Every now and then you will get a troll or someone fishing. At first it just struck me as someone who was bashing. I stand corrected and apologize. I do not have good people skills working in a plant. My first reply to your post should have been welcome aboard, which I do now. Sorry.