13 jl w7
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
so true. i've seen people with some Nice D3s rnning only 500 watts to both subs(capable of atleast 800 together) blow the subs(back of one side of box was actually a little charred, beleave it or not) because he cranked the gains/input Volts on a POS amp && had 'Loudness' on. Plus sub and bass @ max.
but even if it is a clean signal, still not a good idea to free air a sub unless it's designed for it, again, they cannot cool near as effectively as they can in the box. Inverting is also bad for alot of subs, but can cool coils better than free air can, plus, Inverting subs is usually for looks/shows where they dont run much power to the subs.
so true. i've seen people with some Nice D3s rnning only 500 watts to both subs(capable of atleast 800 together) blow the subs(back of one side of box was actually a little charred, beleave it or not) because he cranked the gains/input Volts on a POS amp && had 'Loudness' on. Plus sub and bass @ max.
but even if it is a clean signal, still not a good idea to free air a sub unless it's designed for it, again, they cannot cool near as effectively as they can in the box. Inverting is also bad for alot of subs, but can cool coils better than free air can, plus, Inverting subs is usually for looks/shows where they dont run much power to the subs.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,936
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
Can you post these companies and where they have this warning? Somehow with 15 yrs in the bizI missed the memo.
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
and, so, 90% of people are inexperiences, which means the OP could be, and we're saying it's a good idea for him to free air it with who knows what amp, at who knows what power, and if it's clipping or not.
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
and, so, 90% of people are inexperiences, which means the OP could be, and we're saying it's a good idea for him to free air it with who knows what amp, at who knows what power, and if it's clipping or not.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,936
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
I all would like to officiall call shinanoginns. Charred the inside of the box?
RRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHT TTTTT....
Dude you will make more friends here and at any audio shop if you do not act like you know more then the person next to you, no matter who that person is.
RRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHT TTTTT....
Dude you will make more friends here and at any audio shop if you do not act like you know more then the person next to you, no matter who that person is.
ORIGINAL: Audiophile
So what your saying is by inverting a woofer and exposing it to unheated curculating air that there is a cooling issue with the coils? verses a standard mounted encloser which even if ported will still be subject tohigher temps and uncurculatrd air than outside the box?The majority of woofersout there have tons of research and developement on better cooling and air flow to the coil,You sir are the "inexperienced People" that you mentioned before you obiously a noob andhave no idea what your talking about. Also you can free air any sub on the market,the general rule of thumb is run 30-50% of there rated power in an Infinite Baffle setup (very common in SQ design). Also have you ever invert mounted a W7 without disasembling the box? cause i'd like to see it...
Totall BS! the last demo vehicle we built was running 2 Atomic APXX woofers and4 powerbass XA3000's. now thats 12,000 watts rated rms. before modifing the amps. After smoking the atomics and sending them in for a re-cone. the tech stated "the voice coils would have had to reach over 800 degrees to do the damage done to the coils, (the woofers were abused) which where mounded at the top outside edges of the encloser as close as possoble to the sides with no "charring" of the wood at all. Now how in the hell do you expect to do that with 1/24th the power? I hope you dont think people will take you seriously...
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
have to switch positives and negatives on sub too, and, usually(from installs ive seen) they but small fans by the coils. and there's many sub manufacters who advise against inverting their subs due to cooling reasons.
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
so true. i've seen people with some Nice D3s rnning only 500 watts to both subs(capable of atleast 800 together) blow the subs(back of one side of box was actually a little charred, beleave it or not) because he cranked the gains/input Volts on a POS amp && had 'Loudness' on. Plus sub and bass @ max.
but even if it is a clean signal, still not a good idea to free air a sub unless it's designed for it, again, they cannot cool near as effectively as they can in the box. Inverting is also bad for alot of subs, but can cool coils better than free air can, plus, Inverting subs is usually for looks/shows where they dont run much power to the subs.
so true. i've seen people with some Nice D3s rnning only 500 watts to both subs(capable of atleast 800 together) blow the subs(back of one side of box was actually a little charred, beleave it or not) because he cranked the gains/input Volts on a POS amp && had 'Loudness' on. Plus sub and bass @ max.
but even if it is a clean signal, still not a good idea to free air a sub unless it's designed for it, again, they cannot cool near as effectively as they can in the box. Inverting is also bad for alot of subs, but can cool coils better than free air can, plus, Inverting subs is usually for looks/shows where they dont run much power to the subs.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
ORIGINAL: ttocs
Can you post these companies and where they have this warning? Somehow with 15 yrs in the bizI missed the memo.
Can you post these companies and where they have this warning? Somehow with 15 yrs in the bizI missed the memo.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,292
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
Dude you will make more friends here and at any audio shop if you do not act like you know more then the person next to you, no matter who that person is.
That memo only got sent to 1 person apparently.
5th Gear Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,447
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
ORIGINAL: ninetysixyenko
it's general rule of thumb. 5 seconds. for high end equipment, and especially if the subs are made for free air, obviously you can do it longer. and it's bad for the sub because it can't effectively cool it's self as well as it can in a box, which brings me to why you shouldn't power the sub out of the box with what you have it powered with in the box(usually people have it right around RMS range.. hence the 'RMS wattage' statement as bad as the wording was).
it's general rule of thumb. 5 seconds. for high end equipment, and especially if the subs are made for free air, obviously you can do it longer. and it's bad for the sub because it can't effectively cool it's self as well as it can in a box, which brings me to why you shouldn't power the sub out of the box with what you have it powered with in the box(usually people have it right around RMS range.. hence the 'RMS wattage' statement as bad as the wording was).
There is a very simple reason running a sub free air is not an issue unless you make it one.
A sub is merely a piston that moves air. Generally the piston is in a an enclosure that provides vacuum when the cone is moving forwards and pressure when the cone is moving rearwards. The pressure/vacuum limits the woofer inits Xmax slightly and must be overpowed by the amplifier to simplymake sound. That is one of thekey reason why larger volume encolsures make more db then smaller enclsoures and why in a small sealed box you can run bookoo's of clean power to a sub and many times won't exceed the mechanical xmax limit.
Running a sub free airinside its thermal and mechanical xmax foran infinite amount of time will have no negative consiquencies, therefore you cannot say that ifyou play a sub free airfor more then 5 seconds youdestory it.
With the garbage you bought at best buy, playing it free air with no mechanical xmax limits and very dirty power will blow it every time, but It will just as easily blow inside an enclosure.
Your reasoning about the cooling is also100% wrong. If a subis in an enclusure all the heat the sub producesis kept inside the enclsure. When you mount a sub free air is is exposed to the infinite heat sink known as earth and the movement of thecone itself is enough toforcesome air over the coils for forced convection.
If you are sending a subclean RMS power it doesn't matterif it is in a box or free air.Good audiocompanies have engineers that actually determine the rms takingmechanical and thermal xmax into consideration. The tech support will ALWAYS air on the safe side to prevent any moron from destroying a sub in a matter that is not recommended for use.
You are not an engineer. Once you graduate high school, look into it...
6th Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,936
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
996 - I don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you, but you need to know that these little points of "knowledge" that you give if even a little incorrect can be read by thousands on here and then takes as the gospel because it is on the internet(see the 2nd battery post). As working professionals we can tell you some really funny stories of what DIY'ers did after reading about it, and causing thousands in damage. You also need to understand that no matter how much you know in this industry, there will be more to know tommorow so be patient, sit back and read and learn from here. It is a bit like learning from your big brother as we will give you some basic instuctions, and slap you around(and maybe make fun of ya in good humor) right before you are ready to cut your finger off but you will learn. I have seen many people come on here and grow to a fairly knowledgable audio junkie in a short time.
So please, feel welcome to chime in when you are sure of the info you give but until you are sure of what you are saying, please just sit back and read a little. More is better, all are welcome, but make sure the piece you thrown in the pot is something worth tasting...
So please, feel welcome to chime in when you are sure of the info you give but until you are sure of what you are saying, please just sit back and read a little. More is better, all are welcome, but make sure the piece you thrown in the pot is something worth tasting...
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
ORIGINAL: disturbed471985
^^^ lol audio what were yall doing with the apx's bass races?? 12,000 watts should be well within the thermal limits of that sub for burps.
^^^ lol audio what were yall doing with the apx's bass races?? 12,000 watts should be well within the thermal limits of that sub for burps.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 37
From:
RE: 13 jl w7
ORIGINAL: ttocs
996 - I don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you, but you need to know that these little points of "knowledge" that you give if even a little incorrect can be read by thousands on here and then takes as the gospel because it is on the internet(see the 2nd battery post). As working professionals we can tell you some really funny stories of what DIY'ers did after reading about it, and causing thousands in damage. You also need to understand that no matter how much you know in this industry, there will be more to know tommorow so be patient, sit back and read and learn from here. It is a bit like learning from your big brother as we will give you some basic instuctions, and slap you around(and maybe make fun of ya in good humor) right before you are ready to cut your finger off but you will learn. I have seen many people come on here and grow to a fairly knowledgable audio junkie in a short time.
So please, feel welcome to chime in when you are sure of the info you give but until you are sure of what you are saying, please just sit back and read a little. More is better, all are welcome, but make sure the piece you thrown in the pot is something worth tasting...
996 - I don't want you to feel like we are ganging up on you, but you need to know that these little points of "knowledge" that you give if even a little incorrect can be read by thousands on here and then takes as the gospel because it is on the internet(see the 2nd battery post). As working professionals we can tell you some really funny stories of what DIY'ers did after reading about it, and causing thousands in damage. You also need to understand that no matter how much you know in this industry, there will be more to know tommorow so be patient, sit back and read and learn from here. It is a bit like learning from your big brother as we will give you some basic instuctions, and slap you around(and maybe make fun of ya in good humor) right before you are ready to cut your finger off but you will learn. I have seen many people come on here and grow to a fairly knowledgable audio junkie in a short time.
So please, feel welcome to chime in when you are sure of the info you give but until you are sure of what you are saying, please just sit back and read a little. More is better, all are welcome, but make sure the piece you thrown in the pot is something worth tasting...