Proximity is physical access, transponder wise. Which was my point. Cloning has been around since the start, as a licensed locksmith you can outright purchase prefab equipment; same for lock-picking tools.

Still requires proximity(physical access) to to the key with an adequate signal for quite a good amount of time. And not from any 3-10 ft away with any of them. You have to be practically on top of them to get a decent read from a transponder key, assuming they're not shielded by anything. Many are by default now. This is also with a 40bit key.

You can do the exact same thing with the codes used by any alarm system should you be in proximity to record them with the proper equipment (and far greater distance), which is quite uniform and in the same frequency band as every other manufacturer. They frequency hop, but are not spread-spectrum that I've seen, they simply use a coded piggy-backed digital signal which can be cloned.

They are no different than a factory installed system, balancing making you feel secure against the cost of producing. A 128bit+ secure encrypted handshake(incapable of being intercepted and cloned as it would never be exactly the same) that was spread-spectrum(multiple broadcast/received frequencies at once) IMO would be the way to go, possibly even better production means now, but I've never seen this done when viewing spec sheets. 2-way adds a giant chunk of change to the price-tag on it's own.

 

if transponders were that great the aftermarket alarm companies would have introduced them and mastered the system long before the oem manf got them. And yes your right you would need to be with in a few feet to get a good read but that is not a hard thing to do don't make it out as though the thief needs to give a hand-job to do it. Code hopping has been used for over a decade now in aftermarket alarms because it directly defeats the ability of a code reader to be used and then copied. When I started installing in 93 our shop had a system to read/copy remotes that were not code-hopping but even then they were out. Spread spectrum as well is also not a new idea and yes it is infact used on the alarm I have(check compustar pro line).

If you really think the stock alarm is secure enough, and do not see the value in a 2-way system then I have no idea what to tell you. If you can't see the value in your alarm telling you, possibly the only person that cares in real time that your car is being broken into then Idunno what to say. Now before you start spouting off about having to be in range for it to matter - yea deal with it......

again I would be happy to bet if we parked our cars next to each other and gave the thief the choice that I would not be walking home. Not only is it not a basic alarm but it was not a basic install.

 

Code hopping does not defeat reading. It's not actively hopping, just using a set of frequencies (3 usually I believe) to jump from each time used. That's it. FCC records are publicly available of individuals, and businesses with licensed frequencies for use. Those using open low power business bands are very small sections of frequencies, and have to be in certain increments in each. Aside from that, a frequency counter will give you what it's operating on at that time, usually only hopping to the next higher designated channel, not randomly.

Try to read/comprehend what I'm saying. I've NEVER said they're not valuable (after-market alarm), adding additional security layers is a good thing. But a PATS only system is far from being commonly, or even uncommonly stolen via the means discussed. Currently every after-market system that has R/S has to use some separate bypass module for any PATS, which means taking it half a step back at the least even with starter kills and such on the after-market alarm, since none of them integrate via a secure method back to the after-market alarm. Not even the same manufacturer that produces both. *cough* directed electronics *cough*

Nor did I ever say a 2-way system isn't valued or even wanted by myself. Seriously what? It adds cost, was the point, which is why they don't do what is ideal even with the 2-ways, only what is necessary to get people to buy.

Ideal for me would have a computer programmable/upgradeable interface to the 2-way unit, incorporate what I've already stated, and have an incorporated board for programming a transponder key code to keep the factory PATS integrity intact. Actually, perhaps, not ideal, but what I'd "like" to get from one. I'd prefer to put that kinda money from an ideal alarm towards things actually making my mustang possibly worth stealing in the first place.

Tell ya what, we can park next to each other, compare penises, then try to steal each other's vehicle, whoever wins keeps both cars. I'm down.

Edit: I'll look into a few of the recent compustar ones, as I would actually like to get a decent 2-way sometime when I can get my house-poorness under control. And no, spread spectrum isn't new, and that was also the point, they market it as new even on the pro line I'm looking at. Which is true to point, since it didn't start being used by any of them until just a handful of years back.

I would still like to get one that incorporates a programmable bypass in the actual alarm unit, which would add a giant extra chunk of actual security, not finding jack of squat. Again, manufacturing cost related, as there would need to be different releases of the same product for each of the differing systems. They're guessing the average buyer isn't smart enough to see the value in this from buying a separately incorporated bypass unit. Sad, but likely true.

 

wow - code hopping thanks for arguing the semantics of it - still doesn't change the fact that it prevents theifs from steelin yer ****.

Since we are arguing semantics - Forgive me for thinking that a comment that"2-way adds a giant chunk of change to the price-tag on it's own" - could be misunderstood for meaning that might not seem like a good value for you. How silly of me to think giant chunk of change = anything less then a great value and something you want.


unless the bypass system was mounted on top of the steering wheel with all the wiring exposed and labelled, it SHOULD take just as much time to locate it and then activate it as it would to bypass the stock systems..... The advantage with a custom alarm is that you will never know where to look for it. Unless you have the car in a place that you can first disable the siren to take the time to locate the unit it isn't a concern.

Not sure what your throwing your **** into the story for or wanting to see mine, keep yer homo-tendencies to yourself and you will be better off.

I am guessing you are in the computer field as you seem to know the software inside/out but really do not understand how the hardware works? I am probably the opposit after 15 yrs installing however I do have a degree in electronics that led me to work as a tech. Me personally given the chance for hardware to protect my car or some software, I will always go hardware.... A simple fuel cutt-off switch wired to the relay of a fox-mustang will be just as effective as a modern pats system in my book because it could be anywhere between the bumpers. Hell I could give you my remotes and still make it to where you could not drive off in it with one simple step I included that would take you or a well-versed thief hours to figure out and bypass even with a laptop or all the modern tech you want.

 

I'm going to try and avoid getting too much further into this because it seems it's degrading fast, but that's not just semantics/theory based, it's older technology now, but you can still find equipment that will follow with a learning cycle.

However, I will ask you, how many places does the normal alarm install brains you do get mounted? 2 areas perhaps, not including accompanying relays, as space, time, and running as short as possible lines are factors? And don't know about where you live, but here they tend to go off all the time, and get ignored, so a 2-way is of course a must have. Yours might not be like the rest, but that means nothing to every other car.

As to my edumahkashun, I did about a year and a half long stint in an electrical engineering program, but I was still in my teens and stopped showing up to do other things..Did the install/repair work thing (more communications equipment than anything) for a few years with a private business in the early 90's, then got into general IT as it really started to roll in the mid-90's, took the full line of MS cert tests to get myself hired (as well as some others), then steadily learned a few computing languages, etc...Ran with that before the 2000 bust, doing it ever since. I'm interested in just about every aspect, electronics, code used behind most with logic, etc..
I admit with this many interests I do get behind, as the paycheck doesn't come from the others.

I wouldn't say I trust software more, but to me an ideal system incorporates both, having solely one or the other as the true dependency for security is just snake oil. All of which with a generic mustang is silly IMO anyhow, as far as drive off concern goes with a stock or decent after-market system. Envisioning any theft using the means discussed here of 00+ mustangs, save the shelbys, or other limited runs is a bit ridiculous in my view. We're a dime a dozen car. To my knowledge 99% of the time if someone breaks into a car, they're after what's in it, not the car itself, especially referring to our respective generations of mustang. Hence PATS being fine in my view as the drive off deterrent/stop.

I will make note to rescind the invitation Richard Simmons gave to our next party, but you're missing out. It's BBB (beer, bratwurst, and body oil) night. Not necessarily in that order..

 

the most important part of the alarm, is the install. A good/great alarm with a bad install is just as likely to leave you stranded on the side of the road as a bad alarm with a good install. Yes your correct most places will just throw the brain in the dash next to the colum but if they are that far into it then the stock security system would be just as vulnerable. Alot of places will also sacrifice quality for time by using T-taps to make its connections but if you look back at my recomendations for alarms previously I give instructions of what questions you want to ask the installer, not the salesman.

Again my alarm is in a standard place, wiring is not usual either and there isn't much space to get to the modules while the interior siren is making you wish you were somewhere else, while the alarm is telling me if a door was opened, window broken, ect. Because of all this I am confident my alarm is more secure then any stock system. People do not need to go to this extreme to have their car be safer then it was with the stock alarm.

we cool and the gang?

 

Never un, it's the intarweb man.