New project for me in the near future - Car pc
06-20-2012, 11:40 PM
#1
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New project for me in the near future - Car pc
So I'm kinda fed up with the limited software in all the car stereo's out there (and having to wait for next years software updates) and am considering the option of building my own car pc (refer to www.mp3car.com). It will have all the goodies. 7 inch touch screen, integrated GPS for NAV, bluetooth, voice recognition. SD card slot, large capacity SSD hard drive for media, possibly a separate HD for the Operation system (possibly multi-boot), wifi internet so it connects to any nearby hotspot available (phone). Multi-channel audio so it supports the shaker 500 speakers/subwoofers. .
I'm leaning towards Android as the OS unless Ubuntu or Windows has a good front end / customize-able software that I like
I've got the double-din case chosen, have shortened my list of 7 inch screens to use. , now i need to start looking at which mini-ITX motherboard i want to install and get the peripherals to attach to it (GPS, soundcard (because the on-board soundcard may not be sufficient), microphone, wifi, fm/am radio, HD radio, possibly xm radio, etc) I don't think I need a dvd drive as if I need to watch a movie (for long drives) I'll probably just rip the dvd to file format.
What got me thinking about this was the fact that my current stero (Pioneer AVIC Z110 w/ updated software to Z120) has limited support for Android phones. I currently have a iphone and if there is a chance I switch to a Android phone. I want all the bells and whisles that the iphone gives me. Of course I can keep upgrading my stereo to Z130 and eventually Z140. But why not upgrade the stero o my terms and not have to wait for a year (usually before the next upgrade comes out.
After determining the overall specs of the system I'm going to put together. I will then need to integrate it into the cars power. There are multiple ways of doing that. I'm going to look into the option of adding a second battery just big enough to support that, because if I didn't, then the main battery would get all it's juice sucked out of it even when the car is off.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Once I start this project. I'll start posting updats and all that.
I'm leaning towards Android as the OS unless Ubuntu or Windows has a good front end / customize-able software that I like
I've got the double-din case chosen, have shortened my list of 7 inch screens to use. , now i need to start looking at which mini-ITX motherboard i want to install and get the peripherals to attach to it (GPS, soundcard (because the on-board soundcard may not be sufficient), microphone, wifi, fm/am radio, HD radio, possibly xm radio, etc) I don't think I need a dvd drive as if I need to watch a movie (for long drives) I'll probably just rip the dvd to file format.
What got me thinking about this was the fact that my current stero (Pioneer AVIC Z110 w/ updated software to Z120) has limited support for Android phones. I currently have a iphone and if there is a chance I switch to a Android phone. I want all the bells and whisles that the iphone gives me. Of course I can keep upgrading my stereo to Z130 and eventually Z140. But why not upgrade the stero o my terms and not have to wait for a year (usually before the next upgrade comes out.
After determining the overall specs of the system I'm going to put together. I will then need to integrate it into the cars power. There are multiple ways of doing that. I'm going to look into the option of adding a second battery just big enough to support that, because if I didn't, then the main battery would get all it's juice sucked out of it even when the car is off.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Once I start this project. I'll start posting updats and all that.
Last edited by Murphdog; 06-21-2012 at 01:13 AM.
06-21-2012, 08:53 PM
#3
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Some good starts there. Will need to research a bit more, as some of the choices you mention likely won't be feasible IMO.
Unless you do a tablet install, specifically the Droid OS in terms of feasibility. Drivers are a large limitation. The better front-ends are on windows anyhow. Phone 3g/4g/etc will be dependent upon the phone, the plan you have for it, and/or if you've jailbroken it.
How well it can be set up as a hands-free setup is a crap-shoot, and if you go this route, get the super-high-end multi-array microphones that are available. Not the cheapy dual arrays.
Plan on windows. I would not wish a linux install setup torture session on anyone for a carPC install, it's enough hours of setup in windows. Setup meaning not just OS install, but configuration; of the OS, the front end, drivers, supporting software, plug-ins, etc. Expect the hardware installation portion to be about 30% of the total work, if that.
Linux has it's advantages, and ubuntu has broken some barriers, but it still requires 10x's the effort and hours to be set how you want, and you will likely find, again, drivers to be an issue for key accessories you wish to integrate. I'm using Fedora 16 now to write this if that gives you any idea...You'll need to be seriously hard-core gung-ho linux to see that through for a carPC, if you expect to get over half as much out of it that you would with a windows install.
2nd battery? An isolator will be necessary. Again, I think you will re-think this later. So long as there is a suitably lower-power rig going, with one of the more frequently used automotive PSU's, setting up a second isolated battery is usually not worth the cost, monetarily, or in the install time wise to implement safely.
Any decent automotive PSU (Opus for one..) will have settings for how long after your triggered input goes dark to when it shuts the computer down, hibernates, suspends, or outright kills power, depending on the options it has and you use.
Unless you do a tablet install, specifically the Droid OS in terms of feasibility. Drivers are a large limitation. The better front-ends are on windows anyhow. Phone 3g/4g/etc will be dependent upon the phone, the plan you have for it, and/or if you've jailbroken it.
How well it can be set up as a hands-free setup is a crap-shoot, and if you go this route, get the super-high-end multi-array microphones that are available. Not the cheapy dual arrays.
Plan on windows. I would not wish a linux install setup torture session on anyone for a carPC install, it's enough hours of setup in windows. Setup meaning not just OS install, but configuration; of the OS, the front end, drivers, supporting software, plug-ins, etc. Expect the hardware installation portion to be about 30% of the total work, if that.
Linux has it's advantages, and ubuntu has broken some barriers, but it still requires 10x's the effort and hours to be set how you want, and you will likely find, again, drivers to be an issue for key accessories you wish to integrate. I'm using Fedora 16 now to write this if that gives you any idea...You'll need to be seriously hard-core gung-ho linux to see that through for a carPC, if you expect to get over half as much out of it that you would with a windows install.
2nd battery? An isolator will be necessary. Again, I think you will re-think this later. So long as there is a suitably lower-power rig going, with one of the more frequently used automotive PSU's, setting up a second isolated battery is usually not worth the cost, monetarily, or in the install time wise to implement safely.
Any decent automotive PSU (Opus for one..) will have settings for how long after your triggered input goes dark to when it shuts the computer down, hibernates, suspends, or outright kills power, depending on the options it has and you use.
Last edited by wayne613; 06-21-2012 at 10:26 PM.
06-22-2012, 03:45 PM
#4
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Yeah, with all the research I've been doing the last few nights, it seems that I will be doing Windows. I'm going to try to go high end as far as some of the parts go. The whole purpose of this is so that I don't feel I have to replace parts every couple years and mostly it will be software upgrades after the hardware is built.
06-22-2012, 06:10 PM
#5
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Really, with one of the recent mini-itx low power offerings you shouldn't ever have to.
The higher ones using a core 2 duo or higher with similar GPU involved crank out a ****-ton of heat. Which has to be dealt with, and kills components far faster than usual given the usual cramped quarters and varying temperatures involved at best.
The ones mentioned will do high-def video, play music, have the I/O capability to add on like 12 USB 2/3 devices, and run other daily tasks without stuttering. I can't see how anyone save those few running their PC as a VM host for multiple screens would need more.
I decided for this install I'd go the super-uber route, it's cost me quite a bit in time solving the heat issues, and has still killed 2 OCZ agility 2 SSDs due to the extreme fluctuations. Controller just craps out after about 3 months. The drive gets placed right over the I/O hub and GPU heat sinks. I've actually gone back to a normal HDD to remedy that headache, but at a large cost in start and launch times. Once you go SDD, an HDD is garbage for the OS drive...
The higher ones using a core 2 duo or higher with similar GPU involved crank out a ****-ton of heat. Which has to be dealt with, and kills components far faster than usual given the usual cramped quarters and varying temperatures involved at best.
The ones mentioned will do high-def video, play music, have the I/O capability to add on like 12 USB 2/3 devices, and run other daily tasks without stuttering. I can't see how anyone save those few running their PC as a VM host for multiple screens would need more.
I decided for this install I'd go the super-uber route, it's cost me quite a bit in time solving the heat issues, and has still killed 2 OCZ agility 2 SSDs due to the extreme fluctuations. Controller just craps out after about 3 months. The drive gets placed right over the I/O hub and GPU heat sinks. I've actually gone back to a normal HDD to remedy that headache, but at a large cost in start and launch times. Once you go SDD, an HDD is garbage for the OS drive...
Last edited by wayne613; 06-22-2012 at 06:30 PM.
06-25-2012, 09:47 AM
#8
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not sure what it would be missing possibly besides the voice recognition. I recently saw a tablet integrated into a car where they were even able to control the windows, locks, and even temp controls. With all the different apps out and how easy it is to make one they have Price would probably be similar as well but just much much less labor to install it. This was done by a pro of course but he did get requests for and considering releasing the app.
06-25-2012, 10:50 AM
#9
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Not sure where you're getting your pricing here, but any of the tablet installs require custom fabrication to mount in the dash. Pre-fabs for very cheap are available for standard 7in xenarc/lilliput monitors. Tablets are not expandable in any real sense, PC or otherwise. The cheaper android, and more popular ipads have very few carPC apps to use, and multi-tasking them to do much beyond a video and your email in the background causes barfage.
You are right, in the sense it can, for the final install, be actually MUCH cheaper for the overall install and do most of what the majority would use it for with little inconvenience to warrant anything further.
That said, I dare you to run ODB-II software, navigation, capture from multiple webcams, play HD 1080p video that plays to a separate audio interface, and call your friends hand-free from a tablet, even a PC one. That's without doing anything fancy such as putting in an arduino/fusionbrain to automate/interface various portions of the car. Not counting all the little things you won't be able to do with an ipad/droid, music/video formats, flash video in the case of i-anything, etc...
TV, radio, internet, HD radio, etc...if you can think of something anything else can do, you can do it with a PC in there. Sure, an android can use Pandora, get netflix, etc, but for most installs, you'll get music, limited video, space, memory, no USB expandability, web, some web music(if you get a 3g/4g enabled one, otherwise you'll have to be in range of the built-in wi-fi antenna assuming your antenna isn't attenuated to crap by being in the dash), that's it aside from the odd app offering that might be useful.
The processing power isn't enough to do beyond xx, no usb connections(android/ipad), limited memory, HD space. True decent front-end is still missing as far as I know, apps are still limited for car use, you have to write your own, such as it would be for interfacing with an aurdino over blue-tooth. And that would be specific to inputs used, not dynamic.
The above is likely of the install you speak of, he just wrote an app for a blue-tooth interfaced arduino, it was still quite limited from the speed and options with a PC being used to interface with it, and very time consuming writing the app. The app would also only be good on the same inputs with the same hvac system. Displaying real-time HVAC info would take quite a bit out of a tablet I'd imagine when you went to try and program that to display on the bottom portion constantly while you did other things.
I know of very few who have done actual tablet PC(not a droid/ipad) installs, for the reasons mentioned. Not worth it. Might as well get a far cheaper mini-itx setup you can mount in the trunk or under the seat running to a decent 7' touch-screen.
Android/ipad installs are still awesome, but he stated he didn't want limitations. It will have far more limitations, practically, and physically, especially after the initial install work is done and then looking to try to do more with it when time/money is available.
You are right, in the sense it can, for the final install, be actually MUCH cheaper for the overall install and do most of what the majority would use it for with little inconvenience to warrant anything further.
That said, I dare you to run ODB-II software, navigation, capture from multiple webcams, play HD 1080p video that plays to a separate audio interface, and call your friends hand-free from a tablet, even a PC one. That's without doing anything fancy such as putting in an arduino/fusionbrain to automate/interface various portions of the car. Not counting all the little things you won't be able to do with an ipad/droid, music/video formats, flash video in the case of i-anything, etc...
TV, radio, internet, HD radio, etc...if you can think of something anything else can do, you can do it with a PC in there. Sure, an android can use Pandora, get netflix, etc, but for most installs, you'll get music, limited video, space, memory, no USB expandability, web, some web music(if you get a 3g/4g enabled one, otherwise you'll have to be in range of the built-in wi-fi antenna assuming your antenna isn't attenuated to crap by being in the dash), that's it aside from the odd app offering that might be useful.
The processing power isn't enough to do beyond xx, no usb connections(android/ipad), limited memory, HD space. True decent front-end is still missing as far as I know, apps are still limited for car use, you have to write your own, such as it would be for interfacing with an aurdino over blue-tooth. And that would be specific to inputs used, not dynamic.
The above is likely of the install you speak of, he just wrote an app for a blue-tooth interfaced arduino, it was still quite limited from the speed and options with a PC being used to interface with it, and very time consuming writing the app. The app would also only be good on the same inputs with the same hvac system. Displaying real-time HVAC info would take quite a bit out of a tablet I'd imagine when you went to try and program that to display on the bottom portion constantly while you did other things.
I know of very few who have done actual tablet PC(not a droid/ipad) installs, for the reasons mentioned. Not worth it. Might as well get a far cheaper mini-itx setup you can mount in the trunk or under the seat running to a decent 7' touch-screen.
Android/ipad installs are still awesome, but he stated he didn't want limitations. It will have far more limitations, practically, and physically, especially after the initial install work is done and then looking to try to do more with it when time/money is available.
Last edited by wayne613; 06-25-2012 at 02:33 PM.
06-25-2012, 10:31 PM
#10
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wow, sorry to get ya all upset. I am not sure why the mounting of a tablet would be so much harder then either the way you did it or mounting everything in the trunk. Yes your right that it would need some custom work but it sounds as though your option would leave just as much to do with deciding where to mount everything, how to do it and make it all look right and work reliably. I am a little embarassed to say I saw one tablet that was simply mounted with some velcro but until it was pulled off it was amazingly hard to tell how ghetto it was mounted. As thin as tablets are they are not difficult to integrate into the dash as you seem to think they are.
Sure they are not upgradable hardware wise as yours is but tell me that your is not now in desperate need of either software or hardware upgrades now a few years after installing it all? I don't really see getting more then a 3-4 yrs out of an autopc before either the software is no longer completely compatable with the newest OS out and its time more for replacement and not upgrade.
I would imagine most people with a tablet used in a car would get by the memory limitations with any of the modern "cloud" systems that are available and I would only imagine that someone doing this would go 4g no matter which way he choose.
Either way doesn't matter to me I am just trying to give him some options.
Sure they are not upgradable hardware wise as yours is but tell me that your is not now in desperate need of either software or hardware upgrades now a few years after installing it all? I don't really see getting more then a 3-4 yrs out of an autopc before either the software is no longer completely compatable with the newest OS out and its time more for replacement and not upgrade.
I would imagine most people with a tablet used in a car would get by the memory limitations with any of the modern "cloud" systems that are available and I would only imagine that someone doing this would go 4g no matter which way he choose.
Either way doesn't matter to me I am just trying to give him some options.