Bulldog66

Little history : Before I had the c-4 rebuilt, it was completely bypassing 2nd gear and sliding into 3rd. There was no *shifting* it would raise rpm's and then slide into 3rd when starting from a dead stand still. ( I could dected a small shift point into 2nd at complete cold operation if I let the car start off from a stand still and idle into ger changes.)

Fast forward to a month ago.

I started back on my project and finally got around to having somene go through the c-4. I opted to change the valve body ( known as a green dot transmission w/ a shift pattern of PRN231) to a conventinal shift pattern with a more firm shift point. Better known as PA's street/strip valve body.

I also had a few more things done while the Trans was out and getting freshend up. This put me w/ out the car for about a month ( 3 weeks and a day, but who's counting ). So, I fianlly get the car back and I'm all excited about starting on the interior and driving it again. However...

The problem that I was experiencing before is now back. Only this time, it's between 2nd and 3rd. The shift point between 1st and 2nd is fine, infact it's exactly what I wanted. The car downshifts at normal rpm's as I come to a stop and it also shifts fine from the Drive position and me showering down on it until it reaches the shift point into 3rd gear.

I'm pretty close to aggervated. Probably won't take much from the Trans shop in the way of trying to sugar coat things for me to show my ***. I mean, it's a C-4. They're rebuilt everyday around the planet. It's nothing spectacular. It's not filled with electronics, etc. It's a friggin C-4.

Anyway..

Questions.

1) What on the soft part side, if anything can cause the shift point to slide into a gear instead of being firm and shiffting right into a gear.

2) Can a vacume issuse, such as the modulator or connecting hoses, etc. have any relations to the shift points and cause a slide instead of a gear actually locking in and shifting.

3) Am I, god save this person, experiencing a situation where the Trans shop has not used the valve body I provided ( after we agreed he would, mind you )and has tried to bandage the existing one to work and didn't succeed.

4) Has anyone experienced this before. IF so, what and how?

Thanks for any help.

Pissed of in Florida.

hutchamatic

You may have a small problem and may not. Make sure that your vac hose is connected to manifold vac and not ported vac. This could cause a soft and early shift. As for the third. Is reverse OK. Get kinda aggresive with it in reverse and make sure there is no slipping. If there is the direct clutch could be culprit. Also pump wear is often overlooked. A bad pump will cause all of the problems you are having. Also did you rplace Converter? If not contamination from it could be in Valve Body. Gov wear and sticking is a major problem on these units also. Try running it through the gears on jack stands and see if you can make it shift. Sometimes they just need to be worked out under no load.

Bulldog66

According to my reciept ( I didn't stand there while they did their work ) I paid for a new flex plate, converter and the rebuild kit, including all related soft and hard parts. Pump included. This is suppose to be a fresh build. No more than 100 miles on it atm.

What concerns me the most is. The problem is >exactly< the same save it's at 3rd instead of 2nd gear now. I have checked the fluid daily since I got it back. I checked all hoses the best I could, short of obstructon and it not creating the vacume it should.

I'm just at a stand still w/ things to point at. I mean, if it was anything other than the exact same problem ( save shift points ) I would attribute it to other typical problems. However being it's the same issue, I'm grabbing straws. The shop is suppose to be reputible. They have constant business, infact, they're most times 10 deep waiting.

/boggle.

Colorado_Mustang

Could be a port in the valve body plugged up/contaminated. How does it shift at full throttle?

Either way, I'd take it back before something burns up...

hutchamatic

If they built and installed it let them worry about it. That is what the warranty is for.

Bulldog66

Update.

I talked to the builder this morning ( actually took the car to him and we did a road test ).

He seemed confident that it was internal and not the valve body. The car goes back to him on friday and he personally will make it right over the weekend on his time. So he says anyway. I know anything is possible in the mechanical world and am willing to over look some things. I just hope this guy is true to his world.

Anywho..

I'll be spending some time on the engine bay this week and starting to prep for interior work.

Bulldog66

So..

I decided to start on the engine bay today...

Get the car out of the garage, park it on an area that I'm not worried about grass growing, let it get good and warm, shut it off...

Walk into the garage to get the pressure washer and chemicals I'm using to degrease and wash the engine bay...

I get to the garage opening and there's a spot - about 16 or so inches in dia. right where the car sits...

You guessed it, tranny fluid.

I got right back in the car, pulled it in the garage and parked it.

sooo effin frustrated atm.

/breathe...

Ok. so yea, it's not going too well for me and this Trans shop, lol. My options are limited however. I'm already x monies out on this one and I am trying my damndest to not show my *** and have him not repair the trans. However, it's becomming more difficult for me each day it seems.

Guess I need to start calling and possibly make arrangements to have another shop take a look at it and give me an estimate.

Bulldog66

Ok, so..

I take the car to the builder this morning. There's only 2 people in his shop working. The other fella is nothing but an R&R person. So, there's not a builder there.

The owner decides he wants to do another test drive *alone* and does so. He's gone about 15~ mins or so and comes back. He waves for me to get in the car and go with him. When I get in, he starts driving and says : I detect normal shifts. The shift from 1-2 is a little softer than usual but we can adjust that. The shift from 2-3 is a *firm* shift.

I am silent. I just let him drive and keep going. He stops several times and goes thru the gears. Each time I ask him to watch the tach ( I did the install on the after market tach ). Each time between 2-3 the rpm's flux. There's a second or 2 ( pending where you are in the power band, if you're just slowly going thru the gears its not as bad ) where the rpm's raise before 3rd gear will lock in and complete the shift. Its a slide, not a shift.

So, he finally agrees that there's a problem ( mind you, he already agreed last time and said he'd personally fix it this weekend) and says..

My best builder will be here at 9 AM tomorrow morning. I want you to bring the car here and let him diagnose it. If he says there's a problem I will fix it.

So, I carry it to another shop down the road. I didn't tell them anything, I just asked for a test drive and to tell me if there's anything wrong.

The guy comes back and says ( verbatim, mind you ) There's a slide into 3rd gear. It's probably internal w/ the clearance on that particualr pack.

So, I'm past my point of aggervation now. I'm taking the car to the *best builder* in the morning. IF they give me a line of ****, I'll start the Better Business Bureau (sp) complaint process and have the car taken to another shop to get it fixed.

If you're ever in the Lake City Florida or Tallahassee Fl area, DO NOT have your Transmission service done at Top Line Trans. My experience has been nothing short of complete bull****.

/rant off.

hutchamatic

That is a common prob with these units. Clutch pack clearence and band adjustment in key for this problem.

Bulldog66

All I can say is - wow.

I show up at 8:45 ( the guy was suppose to be there at 9 AM ) and there's no one to be found. No biggie, it's saturday, folks may be running a little behind.

9:30 rolls around and still no body. I call the owner, he says he's waiting to hear from the guy. The last he heard was he would be there at 9. He talked to the builder at 10 PM last night. I say ok, I'll hang around a little longer.

10 AM rolls around and still no body around. I try to call the owner again and the voice mail picks up. I leave a messege and decide to take care of some errands around town ( close to the shop incase the builder shows up ). It's now 1:15 PM. I've not heard from anyone.

I did do a little research however. I found that the adjustment in the modulator valve usually takes care of soft or premature shift points. There's also a pin behind the Modulator valve that needs to be a certian length. If its not ( from wear, age, etc. ) it needs to be replaced and the valve readjusted. Of course, none of the local parts houses carry the valve in stock, so I'll get the valve sometime in the beginning of next week.

I'm done with this builder. I will start the BBB process promptly Monday morning. I could take anything but the complete disregard from the owner. Even if he came to me and said, look, I've done eveything I can, take it somewhere else. I probably would have a different attitude.

At this point, I will go out of my way to be sure everyone I come into contact with knows about my experience with Top Line Transmission. They just are not very good at business, people and apparently early modle Ford C4 Transmissions. Which any builder should have cut their teeth in the beginning of their building career.

Extremely dissapointed.