rust converter vs. rust remover
08-14-2007, 11:21 AM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 622
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
Rust converter turns rust into iron oxide. Rust remover I think is basically the same thing. But there is manual labor involved in stripping the rust. What i do is get a wire wheel for a drill or air gun and remove as much as possible. Then I use phosphoric acid which will turn the rust into iron oxide (black) I then remove that with the wire wheel as well.
The problem with leaving it is that the converter usually only gets to the top layer of rust. When you remove the black, there is usually more non-covnerted rust underneath. So I remove the black and repeat the process untill it is gone. The phosphoric acid leaves the clean metal coted with zinc phosphate, which is a rust inhibitor, similar to galvanizing, and it is also an excelent metal prep for top coat. I then usually coat with por-15 and apply a top coat to that.
In my opinion, the correct way is to get rid of the rust completely. I think no matter what you coat it with it will still be there and rear its ugly head in the future.It takes some elbow grease, but its worth doing it right the first time.
Good luck
The problem with leaving it is that the converter usually only gets to the top layer of rust. When you remove the black, there is usually more non-covnerted rust underneath. So I remove the black and repeat the process untill it is gone. The phosphoric acid leaves the clean metal coted with zinc phosphate, which is a rust inhibitor, similar to galvanizing, and it is also an excelent metal prep for top coat. I then usually coat with por-15 and apply a top coat to that.
In my opinion, the correct way is to get rid of the rust completely. I think no matter what you coat it with it will still be there and rear its ugly head in the future.It takes some elbow grease, but its worth doing it right the first time.
Good luck
08-14-2007, 11:27 AM
#3
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 17,565
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
The directions on the POR 15 can says to not remove the rust, but just to paint over it and it will change the rust into iron oxide. It is very tempting to take off the top coat of rust first, but if you follow the direction on the product, you leave the rust alone.
08-14-2007, 11:39 AM
#5
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location:
Posts: 178
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
Actually, rust converter turns rust (which IS iron oxide) into another substance. Typically, these other substances are iron tannate or iron phosphate. It all depends on the formulation of the converter (whether it contains tannins or phosphoric acid).
08-14-2007, 01:22 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 622
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
Kindred, you are correct, I mis-typed.
Soaring, with all deference, you are slightly incorrect. Por-15 is a coating, it does not convert the rust, it just covers it. Also, the directions say to remove loose rust etc. and, although it is good for "seasoned" metal, you can use it on clean metal but they recomend usingtheir metal prep, which, for the record IS phosphoric acid, which is available at HD for a quarter of the cost as compared to the Por-15Metal Prep.Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know. See info below from Por-15 site
POR-15® brings the powerful technology of polymeric isocyanate derivatives to the consumer rust prevention market for the first time, a technology vastly superior to competing products currently on the market.
POR-15 is easier and less expensive to apply than epoxies, since it doesn’t require mixing: and POR-15 dries to a high-gloss or semi-gloss finish like paint, except that it cannot he scratched or peeled off.
CHARACTERISTICS
Solids - 74%
Vapor Pressure - 38mm
Hg: Boiling Point - 232°F
Specific Gravity 1.05
Percent volatile by Volume 25%
Weight per quart - 2.25lbs.
Solubility in water - insoluble. Since POR-15 chemically bonds to metal, the underlying surface does not have to be sanded before application. As long as loose or flaking rust are removed from the surface, an application of POR-15® will not only cover up the rust and prevent it from spreading, but will also strengthen the underlying metal and seal holes by forming its own membranes.
GENERAL INFORMATION
POR-15® is a paint-like substance which acts as a total rust inhibitor and also very effective as a metal filler. Its consistency is approximately that of paint and it has very good spreadability (one quart covers 96 square feet). POR-15® chemically bonds to rusted steel to form a rock-hard, nonporous coating that won't crack, chip, or peel. It works by isolating metal from moisture; without moisture present, steel can’t rust. Thin, covering coats are best. Apply second coat when first coat is dry to touch with slight "finger-drag" remaining.
APPLICATION OF POR-15® TO NEW METAL
For proper adhesion to aluminum, galvanized metal, and smooth steel surfaces, prep with POR-15® METAL-READY™ Rust Remover/PrePrimer. Keep surface wet for 15 minutes, then rinse off with water and dry thoroughly. This process will leave a zinc phosphate coating on the metal and insure perfect adhesion.
ULTRA-VIOLET SENSITIVITY
POR-15® is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight. Failure to do this may result in long-term damage to the POR-15® coating. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight.
Soaring, with all deference, you are slightly incorrect. Por-15 is a coating, it does not convert the rust, it just covers it. Also, the directions say to remove loose rust etc. and, although it is good for "seasoned" metal, you can use it on clean metal but they recomend usingtheir metal prep, which, for the record IS phosphoric acid, which is available at HD for a quarter of the cost as compared to the Por-15Metal Prep.Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know. See info below from Por-15 site
POR-15® brings the powerful technology of polymeric isocyanate derivatives to the consumer rust prevention market for the first time, a technology vastly superior to competing products currently on the market.
POR-15 is easier and less expensive to apply than epoxies, since it doesn’t require mixing: and POR-15 dries to a high-gloss or semi-gloss finish like paint, except that it cannot he scratched or peeled off.
CHARACTERISTICS
Solids - 74%
Vapor Pressure - 38mm
Hg: Boiling Point - 232°F
Specific Gravity 1.05
Percent volatile by Volume 25%
Weight per quart - 2.25lbs.
Solubility in water - insoluble. Since POR-15 chemically bonds to metal, the underlying surface does not have to be sanded before application. As long as loose or flaking rust are removed from the surface, an application of POR-15® will not only cover up the rust and prevent it from spreading, but will also strengthen the underlying metal and seal holes by forming its own membranes.
GENERAL INFORMATION
POR-15® is a paint-like substance which acts as a total rust inhibitor and also very effective as a metal filler. Its consistency is approximately that of paint and it has very good spreadability (one quart covers 96 square feet). POR-15® chemically bonds to rusted steel to form a rock-hard, nonporous coating that won't crack, chip, or peel. It works by isolating metal from moisture; without moisture present, steel can’t rust. Thin, covering coats are best. Apply second coat when first coat is dry to touch with slight "finger-drag" remaining.
APPLICATION OF POR-15® TO NEW METAL
For proper adhesion to aluminum, galvanized metal, and smooth steel surfaces, prep with POR-15® METAL-READY™ Rust Remover/PrePrimer. Keep surface wet for 15 minutes, then rinse off with water and dry thoroughly. This process will leave a zinc phosphate coating on the metal and insure perfect adhesion.
ULTRA-VIOLET SENSITIVITY
POR-15® is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight. Failure to do this may result in long-term damage to the POR-15® coating. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight.
08-24-2007, 01:19 PM
#7
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
If your looking to get to the bare metal and remove the rust I recomend Safest Rust Remover.
I have had great success with this product. Justa small item done below is example of how well it works. It can be done on large items we have done full frames body panels etc. If you have any questions just email me I would be happy to try to answer any questions I can.
http://www.safestrustremover.com/
I have had great success with this product. Justa small item done below is example of how well it works. It can be done on large items we have done full frames body panels etc. If you have any questions just email me I would be happy to try to answer any questions I can.
http://www.safestrustremover.com/
08-25-2007, 12:26 PM
#10
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 157
RE: rust converter vs. rust remover
do you need to spray the phosphoric acid treated metal w/ anything to neutralize the acid after treatment, or just let it dry?
i've got some very light surface rust underneath, was looking for something I could spray on to remove it but that wouldn't otherwise cover anything once it took care of the rust
thx, jim
i've got some very light surface rust underneath, was looking for something I could spray on to remove it but that wouldn't otherwise cover anything once it took care of the rust
thx, jim