Total Control Coil Over
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: Total Control Coil Over
Pffft, that thing will last forever then. 
And I never said a stock block can't handle that much power, just that it needs to be tuned right to do so. And you can have too much bottom end torque if you run street tires. Torque and horsepower are also totally misunderstood. Torque makes hp, hp is just a function of torque and rpm. A lot of top end hp comes from producing decent top end torque for the given rpm. Yeah, you want torque in the mid range, and even down low(especially in a street car) to launch, but if you have so much that it overcomes your traction, then it's too much bottom end power. IT also comes down to how the car is geared to take advantage of the horsepower. Lotta top end hp works well with low gearing
And I never said a stock block can't handle that much power, just that it needs to be tuned right to do so. And you can have too much bottom end torque if you run street tires. Torque and horsepower are also totally misunderstood. Torque makes hp, hp is just a function of torque and rpm. A lot of top end hp comes from producing decent top end torque for the given rpm. Yeah, you want torque in the mid range, and even down low(especially in a street car) to launch, but if you have so much that it overcomes your traction, then it's too much bottom end power. IT also comes down to how the car is geared to take advantage of the horsepower. Lotta top end hp works well with low gearing
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 107
RE: Total Control Coil Over
I plan on running 100 octane from the 76 pump just to be safe, but IMO, it's laying down some pretty good numbers on 14 pounds with 91. It has 235/40's on it now, and I am thinking the rear could fit 255/40's and a little bit more drop (1/2") to be just right. Probably keep the 235's on the front to eliminate rub issues. The steering is RP power, so if I roll the fenders maybe I could go up to 245's on the front without too much of an issue. I need more contact area, especially in the rear. I also plan on putting PSE (magnesium Torque Thrust look, in charcoal finish...not black)wheels on it. 17 x 9 (8 stagger on front). Black centers do not work for me. I will also have the quick change lugs (long)and no center cover. Should look as good as it goes?
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/5CEEE0BB54AB4CF49815B65B024B921A.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/5CEEE0BB54AB4CF49815B65B024B921A.jpg[/IMG]
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 551
RE: Total Control Coil Over
ORIGINAL: Clu7ch
A friend of mine has a 90 GT 5.0, stock block worked to the tune of 638 RWHP. I'm sure Zuluracerx's set up will handle the power he's making.
As far as the torque, you need more torque during launch to get that monster rolling on it's way down the track. Why do you think trucks usually have higher torque at lower revs? To get the payload rolling. I'd rather have bucket loads of torque on the bottom and endless HP at the top. It works out better.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
A friend of mine has a 90 GT 5.0, stock block worked to the tune of 638 RWHP. I'm sure Zuluracerx's set up will handle the power he's making.
As far as the torque, you need more torque during launch to get that monster rolling on it's way down the track. Why do you think trucks usually have higher torque at lower revs? To get the payload rolling. I'd rather have bucket loads of torque on the bottom and endless HP at the top. It works out better.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 551
RE: Total Control Coil Over
ORIGINAL: zuluracerx
Have a look at this detail of the front coilover. It would seem the underside shock tower plate together with the upper plate to sandwich the original shock tower metal would be far superior (stronger) than stock?
www.totalcontrolproducts.com/download/datasheets/FCOC_DS_WEB.pdf
ORIGINAL: mikethebike
Look at the way the shock mount is attached to the tower. It goes through the tower from the top and is held in place by 3 5/16" bolts to the reinforcing ring under the tower. This put all the load on the bolts whereas the Global-West system uses an aluminum cone UNDER the tower that puts the load where Ford designed it to go. When I called TCP about that they told me that the bolts were not loaded with the forces of the suspension under compression. Just look at it.
If you spend that much money you should get something better.
Look at the way the shock mount is attached to the tower. It goes through the tower from the top and is held in place by 3 5/16" bolts to the reinforcing ring under the tower. This put all the load on the bolts whereas the Global-West system uses an aluminum cone UNDER the tower that puts the load where Ford designed it to go. When I called TCP about that they told me that the bolts were not loaded with the forces of the suspension under compression. Just look at it.
If you spend that much money you should get something better.
www.totalcontrolproducts.com/download/datasheets/FCOC_DS_WEB.pdf
But you need to understand that I am a saftey-first kind of person. In the summer of 1967 I knew 12 kids who died in car crashes during a 9 week period. None were wearing seat belts. After that you don't want to attend another funeral. So, if I get on my soap-box about safety, pease understand I lost a dozen friends when I was 18. More than I lost in SEA. Sorry, but it still bothers me at times.They died for nothing...at least the guys in SEA were doing something worth risking it.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: Total Control Coil Over
ORIGINAL: zuluracerx
I plan on running 100 octane from the 76 pump just to be safe, but IMO, it's laying down some pretty good numbers on 14 pounds with 91. It has 235/40's on it now, and I am thinking the rear could fit 255/40's and a little bit more drop (1/2") to be just right. Probably keep the 235's on the front to eliminate rub issues. The steering is RP power, so if I roll the fenders maybe I could go up to 245's on the front without too much of an issue. I need more contact area, especially in the rear. I also plan on putting PSE (magnesium Torque Thrust look, in charcoal finish...not black)wheels on it. 17 x 9 (8 stagger on front). Black centers do not work for me. I will also have the quick change lugs (long)and no center cover. Should look as good as it goes?
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/5CEEE0BB54AB4CF49815B65B024B921A.jpg[/IMG]
I plan on running 100 octane from the 76 pump just to be safe, but IMO, it's laying down some pretty good numbers on 14 pounds with 91. It has 235/40's on it now, and I am thinking the rear could fit 255/40's and a little bit more drop (1/2") to be just right. Probably keep the 235's on the front to eliminate rub issues. The steering is RP power, so if I roll the fenders maybe I could go up to 245's on the front without too much of an issue. I need more contact area, especially in the rear. I also plan on putting PSE (magnesium Torque Thrust look, in charcoal finish...not black)wheels on it. 17 x 9 (8 stagger on front). Black centers do not work for me. I will also have the quick change lugs (long)and no center cover. Should look as good as it goes?
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/5CEEE0BB54AB4CF49815B65B024B921A.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 107
RE: Total Control Coil Over
No intercooler. I wish I could find room to install one...but it is kind of tight already as you can see. Maybe a "R"valence and put it up front, down low? This is strictly a weekend hellraising car, tuckit away before the ghetto birds figure what's going down in the canyons...
The CR is 9:5. Down here 91 cost $3/gallon. 100 cost $6/gallon at the local 76 pump. I have a 22 gallon race cell tucked into the trunk, so no more than it will be beat on I can live with the cost of 100. That's why the trunk is boxed out, to house the fuel cell. It also not visible unless you look underneath the car. You will also notice a full 3" exhaust if you look closely. It sounds pretty wild. I will try to take some video of it in the next couple of weeks.
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/7F739CED934D4C72AC6C0E20BA46712F.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/8588C5E6ABF74AF2AB5A8A1E15888091.jpg[/IMG]
The CR is 9:5. Down here 91 cost $3/gallon. 100 cost $6/gallon at the local 76 pump. I have a 22 gallon race cell tucked into the trunk, so no more than it will be beat on I can live with the cost of 100. That's why the trunk is boxed out, to house the fuel cell. It also not visible unless you look underneath the car. You will also notice a full 3" exhaust if you look closely. It sounds pretty wild. I will try to take some video of it in the next couple of weeks.
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/7F739CED934D4C72AC6C0E20BA46712F.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/71573/8588C5E6ABF74AF2AB5A8A1E15888091.jpg[/IMG]
5th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,328
From: Where I lay my head is home
RE: Total Control Coil Over
ORIGINAL: mikethebike
WELL.....that should have a short very exciting life.
ORIGINAL: Clu7ch
A friend of mine has a 90 GT 5.0, stock block worked to the tune of 638 RWHP. I'm sure Zuluracerx's set up will handle the power he's making.
As far as the torque, you need more torque during launch to get that monster rolling on it's way down the track. Why do you think trucks usually have higher torque at lower revs? To get the payload rolling. I'd rather have bucket loads of torque on the bottom and endless HP at the top. It works out better.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
A friend of mine has a 90 GT 5.0, stock block worked to the tune of 638 RWHP. I'm sure Zuluracerx's set up will handle the power he's making.
As far as the torque, you need more torque during launch to get that monster rolling on it's way down the track. Why do you think trucks usually have higher torque at lower revs? To get the payload rolling. I'd rather have bucket loads of torque on the bottom and endless HP at the top. It works out better.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
As far as HP being a product of TQ, why is it you can have cars with the same hp and different tq or vice versa?
6th Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,162
From:
RE: Total Control Coil Over
im not a fan or tcp front coilovers i dont like the top mount ill stick with global west there top mount is alot stronger and pretty.the tcp rear coilover set up is a 3 link with a watts link.right now im runing the hedit bolt in 4 link with a panhard bar its geting replaced by evolution motorsports 3 link with a watts link whenever they start selling them.if you dont mind some welding and losing your back seat http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/ theres a few different ones out there look at them all before picking one and be unhappy with it.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: Total Control Coil Over
You could try a vortech aftercooler, I think theirs uses an air-water aftercooler that then cools the water with a small radiator. It may fit. If not, then yeah, for a weekend car it wouldn't hurt to just run the 100 pump stuff to be safe with 9.5:1 and no cooler.
As far as torque and hp.....
Torque is the force that actually moves the car. Horsepower is a function of torque in that hp measures force/time. In an engine horsepower = (torque at x rpm * x rpm)/5252, engine speed is the time element. This means that in any engine torque and hp are the same at 5252rpm, below that torque is always higher and hp lower, and above, torque is always lower and hp higher. Top end hp comes from producing torque at higher rpm, and as long as the rpm rises faster than the torque drops off(within the equation) hp continues to rise. Torque itself is a function of cylinder pressure(which is freaking HIGH at it's peaks), and we measure that in terms of MEAN(an average without the wierd extremes) cylinder pressure. The higher the pressure the more the torque. Don't think of torque and hp as being seperate, they're very inter-related, horsepower is just a measure of torque at a given engine speed. That's why 2 engines can have the same hp but different torque, or the same torque but different hp. It depends on the rpm it's made at. An engine that breathes better at higher rpm than another may have the same peak tq, but the tq doesn't drop off as quickly so it generates more top end hp. Or one engine may breathe much better at higher rpm so it produces the same hp as another engine does at lower rpm because it retains decent top end torque, but the better breathing engine produces less peak torque.
The goal is to match the torque band(and hence the hp band) with the right gearing and rpm range in order to maximize power at the wheels. Higher revving engines can run lower gearing and use the higher rpm horsepower(or higher rpm torque, which is still less than the lower rpmpeak torque value) to make more power at the wheels. And when you start to factor in the rpm ranges you operate in under full power as you shift gears, the right gearing with more top end hp will be a faster car than less gearing and rpm but more torque. Low rpm torque is very important in street cars though, if you want to drive it regularly and not have it be a turd in normal traffic
As far as torque and hp.....
Torque is the force that actually moves the car. Horsepower is a function of torque in that hp measures force/time. In an engine horsepower = (torque at x rpm * x rpm)/5252, engine speed is the time element. This means that in any engine torque and hp are the same at 5252rpm, below that torque is always higher and hp lower, and above, torque is always lower and hp higher. Top end hp comes from producing torque at higher rpm, and as long as the rpm rises faster than the torque drops off(within the equation) hp continues to rise. Torque itself is a function of cylinder pressure(which is freaking HIGH at it's peaks), and we measure that in terms of MEAN(an average without the wierd extremes) cylinder pressure. The higher the pressure the more the torque. Don't think of torque and hp as being seperate, they're very inter-related, horsepower is just a measure of torque at a given engine speed. That's why 2 engines can have the same hp but different torque, or the same torque but different hp. It depends on the rpm it's made at. An engine that breathes better at higher rpm than another may have the same peak tq, but the tq doesn't drop off as quickly so it generates more top end hp. Or one engine may breathe much better at higher rpm so it produces the same hp as another engine does at lower rpm because it retains decent top end torque, but the better breathing engine produces less peak torque.
The goal is to match the torque band(and hence the hp band) with the right gearing and rpm range in order to maximize power at the wheels. Higher revving engines can run lower gearing and use the higher rpm horsepower(or higher rpm torque, which is still less than the lower rpmpeak torque value) to make more power at the wheels. And when you start to factor in the rpm ranges you operate in under full power as you shift gears, the right gearing with more top end hp will be a faster car than less gearing and rpm but more torque. Low rpm torque is very important in street cars though, if you want to drive it regularly and not have it be a turd in normal traffic
Thread Starter
1st Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 107
RE: Total Control Coil Over
Forgive me for asking as I am a newb on MF, but how do you know this? Are you a racer, math major, or what. I am impressed. Thank you for your opinion on the matter, as I find it fascinating.