Windsor or Cleveland
Mach I Section Moderator
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,140
From: round abouts these parts
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
NO SEE BUTT **** I USED IT AS AN ABBREVIATION b/c im to damn lazy to type the whole thing (dont mind the caps) and i know he doesnt have boss 302 heads.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 24
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
ORIGINAL: dodgestang
Just so we are clear...if you looking at 302 motors...there is no cleveland motor. This is the debate for 351 motors only.
With 302s are things like boss 302 which is essentially a 302 with 351 cleveland heads and a special intake....but it is not a cleveland.
All 302s are windor based motors. 289, 302, 351w are all in the same engine family. 351c is in a different engine family.
Just so we are clear...if you looking at 302 motors...there is no cleveland motor. This is the debate for 351 motors only.
With 302s are things like boss 302 which is essentially a 302 with 351 cleveland heads and a special intake....but it is not a cleveland.
All 302s are windor based motors. 289, 302, 351w are all in the same engine family. 351c is in a different engine family.
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
If you're new to engines then don't mess with Clevors, or even a Cleveland unless you already have one. You can get Cleve style heads that bolt right to a Windsor block, CHI for instance. But they're expensive, and for that kinda money I'd prolly go with a Neal head rather than CHI, but then you're talking about building something beyond the realm of mere mortals. So for your case, or anyone who has to ask, you're better off keeping it simple and just building a nice Windsor based engine, 289/302/351. There's less to go wrong, it's cheaper and easier, and you're more likely to be pleased in the long run for a first build
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 499
From:
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
I think it's pretty clear what I'd build. To each his own but if you want a high winding, free flowing, asphalt ripping, Camaro bashing torque monster... BUILD A CLEVOR !
If I remember correctly there were a few guysnamed Shinoda, Jones, Follmer etc ... who seemed to enjoy them quite a bit.
No matter what you do, good luck !
If I remember correctly there were a few guysnamed Shinoda, Jones, Follmer etc ... who seemed to enjoy them quite a bit.
No matter what you do, good luck !
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 241
From:
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
ORIGINAL: 67mustang302
If you're new to engines then don't mess with Clevors, or even a Cleveland unless you already have one. You can get Cleve style heads that bolt right to a Windsor block, CHI for instance. But they're expensive, and for that kinda money I'd prolly go with a Neal head rather than CHI, but then you're talking about building something beyond the realm of mere mortals. So for your case, or anyone who has to ask, you're better off keeping it simple and just building a nice Windsor based engine, 289/302/351. There's less to go wrong, it's cheaper and easier, and you're more likely to be pleased in the long run for a first build
If you're new to engines then don't mess with Clevors, or even a Cleveland unless you already have one. You can get Cleve style heads that bolt right to a Windsor block, CHI for instance. But they're expensive, and for that kinda money I'd prolly go with a Neal head rather than CHI, but then you're talking about building something beyond the realm of mere mortals. So for your case, or anyone who has to ask, you're better off keeping it simple and just building a nice Windsor based engine, 289/302/351. There's less to go wrong, it's cheaper and easier, and you're more likely to be pleased in the long run for a first build
Yukon Cornelius
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,812
From: deep in the heart of dixie GEORGIA
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
ORIGINAL: dodgestang
Just so we are clear...if you looking at 302 motors...there is no cleveland motor. This is the debate for 351 motors only.
With 302s are things like boss 302 which is essentially a 302 with 351 cleveland heads and a special intake....but it is not a cleveland.
All 302s are windor based motors. 289, 302, 351w are all in the same engine family. 351c is in a different engine family.
Just so we are clear...if you looking at 302 motors...there is no cleveland motor. This is the debate for 351 motors only.
With 302s are things like boss 302 which is essentially a 302 with 351 cleveland heads and a special intake....but it is not a cleveland.
All 302s are windor based motors. 289, 302, 351w are all in the same engine family. 351c is in a different engine family.
unless hes from down under:P there is a 302 cleve made there isnt there
6th Gear Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,468
From: California
RE: Windsor or Cleveland
Brodix Neal head, was developed by Brodix in conjunction with Al Neal. It's a Cleveland style head(canted valve arangement), but it's a NASCAR legal head where required for class rules. It flows right around 300/210cfm at only .500 lift, and flow peaks at 330's/220's cfm at around .700-.800 lift, and that's on the smaller BF 300/301 head, they have others with smaller chambers that flow even more. The BF 300/301 is about the only one that you could get to work in a street application, but you'd need one helluva engine to make it work right, a minimum 351cid, but better for a big bore or stroker 351 setup. The other heads have bigger ports and tiny chambers, like 45cc(the 300/301 head is only a 196cc intake port, with like a 65cc chamber), so your compression would be ginormous in a street application. It's about one of the best SBF heads out there, but they startaround $2,350 for a pair and go up...bare.