HP vs TOURQUE
5th Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,176
From: Insanity
RE: HP vs TOURQUE
ORIGINAL: 83GT306
That depends on where you want your torque curve to start.
Does your cam start making serious torque at 2500-3000 rpms and then carries through to 7000?
That's why you'd need the 4.11 gear to get you moving off the line.
A cam that makes good power starting at 1500 rpms and rated for 5500 rpms is all a street engine needs.
With higher rpm cams you'll need to dump all kinds of extra money into stuff like stall converters, and gears etc...
I don't think many drivers rev and launch their cars from the stoplight at 3000 rpms. If they do, they're a public safety hazard.
And merging onto the interstate at 7000 rpms? You must be doing 100 mph by then. Not legal street driving.
But yes, a 408W will have alot of torque, though you shouldn't build an all out race engine for a daily driver.
But also the original poster here never stated whether or not it was a street or race engine, I just assumed street?
Either way, torque down low is good, and is what carries the car to the HP range, and like I said, the upper max rpm has to do with whether or not your heads, intake, and exhaust can support that max rpm.
I'm running a cam that is rated from 1500-5500 rpms and I've pushed it to atleast 6000 before, still making power. You can't expect to shove a high rpm cam in an engine that has all factory parts, intake, fuel, exhaust, etc...and attain the rpm the cam is rated for.
That depends on where you want your torque curve to start.
Does your cam start making serious torque at 2500-3000 rpms and then carries through to 7000?
That's why you'd need the 4.11 gear to get you moving off the line.
A cam that makes good power starting at 1500 rpms and rated for 5500 rpms is all a street engine needs.
With higher rpm cams you'll need to dump all kinds of extra money into stuff like stall converters, and gears etc...
I don't think many drivers rev and launch their cars from the stoplight at 3000 rpms. If they do, they're a public safety hazard.
And merging onto the interstate at 7000 rpms? You must be doing 100 mph by then. Not legal street driving.
But yes, a 408W will have alot of torque, though you shouldn't build an all out race engine for a daily driver.
But also the original poster here never stated whether or not it was a street or race engine, I just assumed street?
Either way, torque down low is good, and is what carries the car to the HP range, and like I said, the upper max rpm has to do with whether or not your heads, intake, and exhaust can support that max rpm.
I'm running a cam that is rated from 1500-5500 rpms and I've pushed it to atleast 6000 before, still making power. You can't expect to shove a high rpm cam in an engine that has all factory parts, intake, fuel, exhaust, etc...and attain the rpm the cam is rated for.
Uhhhh missed a little on the point.
I was asking to the original poster's question about what they consided high reving not to the HP/torque debate that ensued...until you know what they mean when they say high revving it is impossible to convey any advise specific enough to their needs.
regardless of what cam you choose, a 4.11 will always outperform off the line...add a properely built OD and you keep top end.
It doesn't matter how hot your car is, with a 2.8 rear it will always seem slow off the line
but yes....you do need to build your car to support your power....but that holds true regardless of if you are making 300 peak RWHP at 5500 or 400 peak RWHP at 6900 RPM.As for launching at 3k....I don't need to launch my car to blow anything I have come up against away on the street...the only time I have lost (term used lossely and not applied to a race of any kind) is when I broke traction on black ice cruising on the highway at 70, spun out, and hit a semi....car is currently at the body shop
I also define making power as having a dyno chart that shows the HP line still going up at 7k
I don't have a lot of faith in the butt-o-metersAs for my personal driving technigue..... http://www.dodgestang.com/speedchart2.jpg ....<== speed chart....I merge in 2nd and have third in reserve incase someone already cruisign at 75 wants to challenge me for posistion.
1st Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
From: Indy
RE: HP vs TOURQUE
ORIGINAL: dodgestang
Uhhhh missed a little on the point.
I was asking to the original poster's question about what they consided high reving not to the HP/torque debate that ensued...until you know what they mean when they say high revving it is impossible to convey any advise specific enough to their needs.
regardless of what cam you choose, a 4.11 will always outperform off the line...add a properely built OD and you keep top end.
It doesn't matter how hot your car is, with a 2.8 rear it will always seem slow off the line but yes....you do need to build your car to support your power....but that holds true regardless of if you are making 300 peak RWHP at 5500 or 400 peak RWHP at 6900 RPM.
As for launching at 3k....I don't need to launch my car to blow anything I have come up against away on the street...the only time I have lost (term used lossely and not applied to a race of any kind) is when I broke traction on black ice cruising on the highway at 70, spun out, and hit a semi....car is currently at the body shop
I also define making power as having a dyno chart that shows the HP line still going up at 7k I don't have a lot of faith in the butt-o-meters
As for my personal driving technigue..... http://www.dodgestang.com/speedchart2.jpg ....<== speed chart....I merge in 2nd and have third in reserve incase someone already cruisign at 75 wants to challenge me for posistion.
ORIGINAL: 83GT306
That depends on where you want your torque curve to start.
Does your cam start making serious torque at 2500-3000 rpms and then carries through to 7000?
That's why you'd need the 4.11 gear to get you moving off the line.
A cam that makes good power starting at 1500 rpms and rated for 5500 rpms is all a street engine needs.
With higher rpm cams you'll need to dump all kinds of extra money into stuff like stall converters, and gears etc...
I don't think many drivers rev and launch their cars from the stoplight at 3000 rpms. If they do, they're a public safety hazard.
And merging onto the interstate at 7000 rpms? You must be doing 100 mph by then. Not legal street driving.
But yes, a 408W will have alot of torque, though you shouldn't build an all out race engine for a daily driver.
But also the original poster here never stated whether or not it was a street or race engine, I just assumed street?
Either way, torque down low is good, and is what carries the car to the HP range, and like I said, the upper max rpm has to do with whether or not your heads, intake, and exhaust can support that max rpm.
I'm running a cam that is rated from 1500-5500 rpms and I've pushed it to atleast 6000 before, still making power. You can't expect to shove a high rpm cam in an engine that has all factory parts, intake, fuel, exhaust, etc...and attain the rpm the cam is rated for.
That depends on where you want your torque curve to start.
Does your cam start making serious torque at 2500-3000 rpms and then carries through to 7000?
That's why you'd need the 4.11 gear to get you moving off the line.
A cam that makes good power starting at 1500 rpms and rated for 5500 rpms is all a street engine needs.
With higher rpm cams you'll need to dump all kinds of extra money into stuff like stall converters, and gears etc...
I don't think many drivers rev and launch their cars from the stoplight at 3000 rpms. If they do, they're a public safety hazard.
And merging onto the interstate at 7000 rpms? You must be doing 100 mph by then. Not legal street driving.
But yes, a 408W will have alot of torque, though you shouldn't build an all out race engine for a daily driver.
But also the original poster here never stated whether or not it was a street or race engine, I just assumed street?
Either way, torque down low is good, and is what carries the car to the HP range, and like I said, the upper max rpm has to do with whether or not your heads, intake, and exhaust can support that max rpm.
I'm running a cam that is rated from 1500-5500 rpms and I've pushed it to atleast 6000 before, still making power. You can't expect to shove a high rpm cam in an engine that has all factory parts, intake, fuel, exhaust, etc...and attain the rpm the cam is rated for.
Uhhhh missed a little on the point.
I was asking to the original poster's question about what they consided high reving not to the HP/torque debate that ensued...until you know what they mean when they say high revving it is impossible to convey any advise specific enough to their needs.
regardless of what cam you choose, a 4.11 will always outperform off the line...add a properely built OD and you keep top end.
It doesn't matter how hot your car is, with a 2.8 rear it will always seem slow off the line
but yes....you do need to build your car to support your power....but that holds true regardless of if you are making 300 peak RWHP at 5500 or 400 peak RWHP at 6900 RPM.As for launching at 3k....I don't need to launch my car to blow anything I have come up against away on the street...the only time I have lost (term used lossely and not applied to a race of any kind) is when I broke traction on black ice cruising on the highway at 70, spun out, and hit a semi....car is currently at the body shop
I also define making power as having a dyno chart that shows the HP line still going up at 7k
I don't have a lot of faith in the butt-o-metersAs for my personal driving technigue..... http://www.dodgestang.com/speedchart2.jpg ....<== speed chart....I merge in 2nd and have third in reserve incase someone already cruisign at 75 wants to challenge me for posistion.
I guess I'm just referring to whether or not the guy wants power from a standstill with say...highway friendly 3.55s and a C-4.
He didn't elaborate much on the total combo.
Myself, I have a mild combo as stated in my signature. All I have to do is dump the clutch if needed to get going off the line, but an auto will always need more power off the line.
But true, an engine built for high revs will still get going quick with a 4.11 and an auto tranny.
Just tryin' to put some ideas into the build-up if the author here isn't sure of his ability.
I'm not a technician, just a shadetree gearhead.
I just happened to find a working street combo on the first try because I read stuff for years before attempting my own rebuild, and hell, that was several years ago, I need to experiment more with my current combo...maybe I'm short changing myself? lol
[IMG]local://upfiles/10806/FA5850D28EF14026991B28605FE1E762.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/10806/7B44555B058E46178649FC1DFADF783F.jpg[/IMG]
3rd Gear Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 590
From:
RE: HP vs TOURQUE
ORIGINAL: Dan66
Oh, good Lord![:@]
ORIGINAL: horseshoeing
...torque is for a truck.
...torque is for a truck.
I ♥ Acer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,565
From:
RE: HP vs TOURQUE
ORIGINAL: roundman
a 351 would be a better street engine IMO.
ORIGINAL: drewsky
thanks for all that but the question has still not been answered. wich will make my car faster on the street a 289 or a 351 stroked or not. thanks
thanks for all that but the question has still not been answered. wich will make my car faster on the street a 289 or a 351 stroked or not. thanks
1st Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
From: Indy
RE: HP vs TOURQUE
ORIGINAL: Soaring
Let me ask you guys a question. I have been reading for several years now, that the 351 Cleveland has a weaker bottom, but a stronger top than the 351 Windsor. In my shallow mind, that would equate to the 351C being a weaker motor even though the walls are thicker. What's this all about? Does the 351C have weaker rods, bearings, crank, etc.? If so, how do you make 500RHP from that engine without tearing up the bottom? I have a 289, so am just inquisitive.
ORIGINAL: roundman
a 351 would be a better street engine IMO.
ORIGINAL: drewsky
thanks for all that but the question has still not been answered. wich will make my car faster on the street a 289 or a 351 stroked or not. thanks
thanks for all that but the question has still not been answered. wich will make my car faster on the street a 289 or a 351 stroked or not. thanks
And an oiling issue. The mains receive oiling after the cam bearings? Which requires oil gallery restrictors to redirect oil to the mains on a 351C.
Clevelands have better heads w/ bigger valves than the Windsors.
I'd go Windsor because of availability of blocks and speed parts, I think Clevelands are pretty scarce nowadays.
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