go with N/A its much more impressive than getting 450hp with a blower. If you look at this link this guy has a parts list on how he got 400hp from a 351, I'm sure you could modify it a little bit to get 450hp

http://www.mustangsteve.com/351W_Parts.html

BTW he said it cost him about $5,000 plus labor to put it all together and install it

 

Most crate motors will not run 500ft*lbs of torque and hardly no one will warranty a motor running at those levels. You are in the performance range at those levels for sure. I am conservatively running about 475hp@6000 475ft*lbs@4500 with a 3.75stroke (hp could be more or slightly less but I have not dynoed it), and I have the chip set at 7k. I know 450hp is doable in a big ford small block. It is streetable, but not really a cruiser .

Look, I am not going to argue very vigorously with the engine builders who have posted, but you cannot deny the cost of parts. Forged pistons, rods, crank, and ARP bolts is $2-3k. An aftermarket block that is guaranteed to be solid in the 450-500hp range is $2-3k. Good heads are $2-3k. Throw in some balancing, machining, cam, roller lifters, roller rockers, good push rods, intake, carb, pumps, covers, flywheel, balancer, headers, mouter mounts, alternator, fuel system with lines pump and regulator, etc...It adds up FAST. Heck if you want to use all ARP bolts and hardware, that alone is going to run $1500-$2k. $5k would buy a warmed up Janer, IMO. $10k is doable, if you are very very budget conscious especially if you already have accessories, flywheel, balancer, carb, etc. and do all the work yourself and do not need much machine work.

I have a spreadsheet of exactly what every bolt and nut cost on my motor. My estimate is for everything needed in front of the clutch. I could have trimmed some cost in a few areas, but $10k would have been tough.

You may say I over engineered it (I did slightly), but I have confidence my motor is not going to blow up in 20k miles. Can you say the same for a $5-6k crate motor running 500ft*lbs? Stock or cheap parts are not going to stand up long to 450-500hp @ the crank.

 

Wait, a 1969 351w block can't handle 450hp/~450tq? I thought these earlier castings had higher nickel content or something which makes them strong? Oh, and what about those edelbrock top end kits? They run about 2500 on summit, and I know that there would be alot of hidden costs for the things that DONT come with the kit, but according to there website its good for 450hp and 430ft/lbs.

 

Not nickel content, just more webbing and a bigger crank. A 4 bolt main is waaay over kill for 500 hp. In a 302 maybe, but not 351. Boosting to get "only 450" is an expensive waste of money honestly. In a long block, 10-12k will get you a motor good for 1k or over in HP. Really, stock crank and rods maybe with ARP upgrades will do you just fine. My stock internal 302 did 530 rwhp no problem. Ford junk is under rated. Seen stock 351 cranks in the 9's in the 1/4 many times.

 

I builld these 400+ inch windsors daily along side MANY 347's. 500hp, 500tq out of a 400 inch windsor on pump gas, hyd roller cam is a cakewalk. The 69 block will easily sustain 700-800+hp. For a serious guy who says I have 8-10k, you can build a windsor that will easily make 500+ at 6500rpm and live for 50k+ miles before a complimentary refresh.

Its very easy nowadays with the cylinder head and cam packages with the inches. Here is a perfect example, this is leaving for finland tomorrow, simple 408 inch longblock, this one is a solid roller cam on pump gas, AFR205 head, etc etc. Make 575 all day long, 7-8k depending on options and so forth. Anyone that tells you its really expensive or hard, hasnt done very many.

 

I agree that 450-500hp/ft*lbs out of a Windsor is not hard to do, but what strength parts do you need to make it last 75-100K miles at those levels?

Woodsy, since you are a stroker expert builder, at what torque, horsepower, or rpm level do you warranty/guarantee a stock two bolt block with cast rotating assembly setup going to 75-100k miles? At what level do you consider forged rotating assemblies and four bolt or aftermarket blocks?

I would consider a motor that needs a rebuilt at 50k as being a little short lived even for a street/strip performance motor, but I drive my toys 5-8k miles a year.

 

Some parts can help an engine live longer. But it's HP itself that will wear parts, like rings and bearings. I think the rings and bearings will need help long before the crank , block, crank or rods have issues.Sure the car will still be running just fine at 50k, just like any other. Hot rodders tend to be picky though. I freshen mine about every 2-3 years. A better set of rings like tool steel might last longer themselves, but then will wear the block faster......Woodsy ?

 

both of you make valid points. I just want to add: making more power from any engine, puts more stress on it parts. there becomes a point that getting an extra 50hp isn't worth losing reliability.

on another note, a stroked engine is a really nice upgrade for a street car. you will have more low end torque from it, and compared to other modifications, it's relatively inexpensive. just remember, that technically a 351w is already stroked. I don't know how big you can go (C.I.), but there will a point where rod clearances, and possibility deck height, become a problem.

personally, I would say 450hp for 5k is doable (351w), but that's with me putting it together. best of luck with this!

 

How so?

 

Its from the same family of engines as the 289 and 302, technically a 302 is a stroked and bored 289, and a 351W a bored and stroked 302, but there is a bit more too it than that. But thats also why you can use the same heads for a 289, 302, or 351 along with some other parts