what's a good tire
08-13-2009, 09:19 PM
#21
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location:
Posts: 281
both of you make good points, but i'm gonna have to lean towards bfg T/As and firehawk indy 500s. look good and are more than adequet for me. i have no complaints. they do me well. plus i don't see my classic as an everyday driver, so it rarely if ever sees rain. don't like driving them in the rain. too many crazy driver's and around here, rain = guaranteed accidents. never failed to see it happen.
what's more enjoyable than driving your classic on a nice 65 degree F day with the windows down and the sun up? do as you all will. to each his own. no one is wrong. just saying that for most of us the mediocre tire is king.
what's more enjoyable than driving your classic on a nice 65 degree F day with the windows down and the sun up? do as you all will. to each his own. no one is wrong. just saying that for most of us the mediocre tire is king.
08-13-2009, 10:14 PM
#22
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 145
I have the BFG Radial T/As that I just had put on. My dad had them for about three years on his Sonoma (bought the truck with them and sold it with the same tires.) He seemed happy with them. They seem to be more than adequate to me and I like the look of them. They are noticeably better grip wise than my old tires (but that could be because I went from a 205-60-14 to a 245-60-14 also.) I had no problems with them on the 600 mi. trip to Birmingham for the 45th show and it poured down rain the whole way back. That being said, if I had a more common size, I probably would have chosen a more advanced tire. Like said above, to each their own.
08-14-2009, 01:28 AM
#23
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,462
Compared to modern tire designs, tires like the Radial T/A, Firestone Firehawk, and GY Eagle GT II are sorely lacking. If you've ever driven a modern performance vehicle with decent tires, you understand how much of a difference there is.
Radial T/A's, while they look great, have mediocre grip at best, and that's in dry conditions. Wet traction is almost nonexistant. The sidewalls are tall, round, and soft, and have a tendency to roll over while cornering. When it comes down to it, you're using 30 year old tire technology.
I have Radial T/A's on my '67 that I drive very hard on occasion, and I hate them. They're not designed for performance driving at all, and linear traction is so poor that I have a very hard time keep the tires stuck to the ground on a quick take off.
Even a set of modern sport touring tires, like BFG Traction T/A's, will drastically outperform Radial T/A's. A set of BFG G-Force or Nitto 555's will blow them out of the water.
Radial T/A's, while they look great, have mediocre grip at best, and that's in dry conditions. Wet traction is almost nonexistant. The sidewalls are tall, round, and soft, and have a tendency to roll over while cornering. When it comes down to it, you're using 30 year old tire technology.
I have Radial T/A's on my '67 that I drive very hard on occasion, and I hate them. They're not designed for performance driving at all, and linear traction is so poor that I have a very hard time keep the tires stuck to the ground on a quick take off.
Even a set of modern sport touring tires, like BFG Traction T/A's, will drastically outperform Radial T/A's. A set of BFG G-Force or Nitto 555's will blow them out of the water.
I agree that the tires we have on the 97 Cobra do perform much better, but they are over twice the price. We have Michelin Pilots on it. They do really well and for a high performance tire they do exceptional in bad weather.
I like the fact that if I do burn outs, I can replace the rear tires for 200 bucks.
I also just think that they suit the car and look right.
I actually have 255 70 15 Radial TA tires on my 95 F150 right now and they work better on the road than any tire that has been on my truck. I have no problems in the rain with them. I am thinking about changing to Michelin LTX MS tires on it next time though.
Last edited by tx65coupe; 08-14-2009 at 01:37 AM.
08-14-2009, 01:32 AM
#24
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,462
No offense, but unless you've gone and upgraded the entire suspension and steering setup to be on par with modern stuff (which I'm doubting you've done if you say it has problems with linear tracking), all these tires that you're saying are behind in terms of performance will be more than adequate.
For 90% of us, whom have basically stock or very mildly upgraded suspensions (40 year old technology), these tires (with their 30 year old design) will be plenty good. Of course autocrossing is a different story, but most of us just cruise and drive regularly, even fewer of us drive in the rain.
Now, if the tire makers would make the good tires in the sizes we use, I'm sure we'd be all over them, but a lot of us are still running the 14 and 15" rims with tall sidewall tires, they don't make many high performance tires in our sizes so we just make do.
Doing much more than that is just asking more of the car than it was ever designed to do, which I don't see as a good idea.
For 90% of us, whom have basically stock or very mildly upgraded suspensions (40 year old technology), these tires (with their 30 year old design) will be plenty good. Of course autocrossing is a different story, but most of us just cruise and drive regularly, even fewer of us drive in the rain.
Now, if the tire makers would make the good tires in the sizes we use, I'm sure we'd be all over them, but a lot of us are still running the 14 and 15" rims with tall sidewall tires, they don't make many high performance tires in our sizes so we just make do.
Doing much more than that is just asking more of the car than it was ever designed to do, which I don't see as a good idea.
I agree about the technology statement. Even if the car is rebuilt or upgraded some, the suspension is still mostly older technology. Of course I wouldn't run the cheapest tires I could find. I once had a set of 4 tires from Pep Boys for 99 dollars. Man for new tires those completely sucked. They might have been acceptable as trailer tires. In the rain the car would hydroplane and slide quite a bit.
I will say that the BFG TA and tires like it are not really made the same now as they were back then.
Last edited by tx65coupe; 08-14-2009 at 01:37 AM.
08-14-2009, 02:32 AM
#25
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 800
Nabster, there is an incredibly noticable difference between my crappy Radial T/A's and Jonward's sticky Michelins, and I'm the one with the modified suspension. While my car is more stable and responsive while cornering, his definitely has more tire grip. You just can't always make use of it.
"[Few] of us ever drive in the rain?" That's a big assumption. I know lots of people that drive their classics rain or shine, myself included.
Also, I said linear traction, not tracking. As in traction in a straight line, as opposed to lateral traction. My 1st gear is basically a tire burning gear, and in the rain it gets 10x worse. Taking off from a stop while facing up a hill in the rain is almost guaranteed to result in lots of tire spin.
Radial T/A's and their like, while acceptable for mild driving, plain suck when you compare them to anything modern. Even Traction T/A's, which are mild sport touring tires, will run circles around them.
You may not realize it while putting around town, but when you have to slam on the brakes or swerve to avoid an accident, you're going to appreciate the tires that stick to the ground and don't fold over as opposed to the ones that roll and slide all over the place, giving you mushy, unresponsive steering.
Just because the cars are old doesn't mean you shouldn't be using something better than a 30 year old tire design. Firestone Wide Ovals were great back when these cars were new, and in theory you would probably still be just fine running those around town, but do you really want to?
"[Few] of us ever drive in the rain?" That's a big assumption. I know lots of people that drive their classics rain or shine, myself included.
Also, I said linear traction, not tracking. As in traction in a straight line, as opposed to lateral traction. My 1st gear is basically a tire burning gear, and in the rain it gets 10x worse. Taking off from a stop while facing up a hill in the rain is almost guaranteed to result in lots of tire spin.
Radial T/A's and their like, while acceptable for mild driving, plain suck when you compare them to anything modern. Even Traction T/A's, which are mild sport touring tires, will run circles around them.
You may not realize it while putting around town, but when you have to slam on the brakes or swerve to avoid an accident, you're going to appreciate the tires that stick to the ground and don't fold over as opposed to the ones that roll and slide all over the place, giving you mushy, unresponsive steering.
Just because the cars are old doesn't mean you shouldn't be using something better than a 30 year old tire design. Firestone Wide Ovals were great back when these cars were new, and in theory you would probably still be just fine running those around town, but do you really want to?
Around town they're more than fine as well, I keep an eye out and stay far enough away from other cars that I don't have to suddenly slam on the brakes and skid. Prevention is just as important and preparation in a case like that. If it were up to my parents when I put new tires on my Mustang a few months ago, it would have been 2 of whatever they found locally for ~$90-100 each up front with 2 of the old tires on the back. I ordered in the 4 Indy 500's because I didn't want a mishmash of tires. At the same time I spent $1000 replacing and upgrading old suspension parts up front and made sure to get it all aligned properly.
Not everyone is going to know what's going on with tires, but most of us in the classic crowd know enough to ask. Most of us also happen to not need the high performance tires, so that's why I'm speaking up. There's no sense needlessly trashing the tires a lot of us run because they're inferior to others- they're fine for the majority of our needs, and for those who have more performance oriented needs, they have more performance oriented tires.
Ideally we'd all get real nice tires, but that's just simply not going to happen for a number of reasons- cost and availability mostly. Not all of us care to spend $200+ per tire, not all of us run large enough wheels to get the better tires, and not all of us can even get the better tires in our area. Like I said, if they made a nice tire in a 245 or 255 14" size, I'd be all over it. Yes, the ones we like aren't the best, but they work fine.
And just for reference, my other driver is a modified supercharged Grand Prix which has some higher end Bridgestone Potenza performance tires, so I'm not a complete stranger to good tires.
08-14-2009, 11:15 AM
#26
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 5,896
You don't have to spend $200/tire to get decent performance tires. Traction T/A's are very affordable (less than $100), as are G-Force Sports. Both are far superior tires to the Radial T/A, and the Traction T/A's might even last longer.
As far as wet traction goes, do you have an auto or manual? It's going to be less noticable in an auto car. I really have a hard time taking off in the rain without breaking traction. My coworker with a '92 Dakota 5.2L with Radial T/A's has the same problem. The tread design (which really hasn't changed in 30 years) just sucks for wet traction. A directional tire designed to push water away from the center of the tire will perform much better in wet weather. My roommate's old '96 Trans Am with directional Eagle F1 GS-D3's, which are 'summer tires,' had much better traction in the rain than my Radial T/A's, despite shorter gearing and more torque.
The OP asked for tires with good handling abilities, and Radial T/A's simply do not fall into that category as far as I'm concerned. Sure, you can take them to the limit if you know what you're doing (and I do that often enough), but that limit is quite a bit shorter than it would be if you had a stiffer, stickier tire. It can get you into trouble if you hit a corner too hot. Better to have something with more grip and better wet traction, especially if you plan on driving the car often.
Point being, if you can get a set of Traction T/A's for about the same price, why not get the better tire? I went with Radial T/A's for looks, and now that I've got the suspension updated, I'm sorely disappointed in them.
As far as wet traction goes, do you have an auto or manual? It's going to be less noticable in an auto car. I really have a hard time taking off in the rain without breaking traction. My coworker with a '92 Dakota 5.2L with Radial T/A's has the same problem. The tread design (which really hasn't changed in 30 years) just sucks for wet traction. A directional tire designed to push water away from the center of the tire will perform much better in wet weather. My roommate's old '96 Trans Am with directional Eagle F1 GS-D3's, which are 'summer tires,' had much better traction in the rain than my Radial T/A's, despite shorter gearing and more torque.
The OP asked for tires with good handling abilities, and Radial T/A's simply do not fall into that category as far as I'm concerned. Sure, you can take them to the limit if you know what you're doing (and I do that often enough), but that limit is quite a bit shorter than it would be if you had a stiffer, stickier tire. It can get you into trouble if you hit a corner too hot. Better to have something with more grip and better wet traction, especially if you plan on driving the car often.
Point being, if you can get a set of Traction T/A's for about the same price, why not get the better tire? I went with Radial T/A's for looks, and now that I've got the suspension updated, I'm sorely disappointed in them.
08-14-2009, 11:56 AM
#28
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Do you want a tire that's willing to work a little harder or one that is unresponsive and howls in protest every time you ask it to play?
I would never, ever recommend anything less than H rating (or use less than V on any of my own cars). H and up has a belt cap ply, below H almost never does. It's a good thing to have - maybe these cars are 40 years old, but the traffic that you drive in/with is right-now current. You owe yourself equipment that's as up-to-date as reasonably possible.
If this comes down to a decision between a tire with a higher treadwear rating but lower traction & temperature and another tire that has lower treadwear but is higher rated in the other categories, choose the higher traction & temperature.
Norm
08-14-2009, 12:19 PM
#29
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
The g-Force Sport and Super Sports (all-season?) are not available in 14". If you have a moderately powered car (let's say 350 at the crank), I can tell you from experience that the g-Force Sports won't be happy when you add throttle exiting a corner taken with "enthusiasm" - think in tems of the tail getting loose in 3rd gear at low rpms without particularly trying. Thet are good at cornering under steady throttle, and good at pure straight line acceleration. Just not very good trying to do both together, and without question they are nowhere near as good as Firestone SZ50's were (unfortunately, the 'Stones are no longer in production in any size).
Edit - IMO, the g-force Sports aren't enough better to warrant going up only 1" in wheel size, unless you absolutely will not consider anything larger. I don't like the upsizing any better than most here, but it's where the performance now lives. To the tire companies, the classic Mustangs (and other ponycars and musclecars) are just old cars.
I don't think I've consistently driven any car "mildly".
Norm
Edit - IMO, the g-force Sports aren't enough better to warrant going up only 1" in wheel size, unless you absolutely will not consider anything larger. I don't like the upsizing any better than most here, but it's where the performance now lives. To the tire companies, the classic Mustangs (and other ponycars and musclecars) are just old cars.
I don't think I've consistently driven any car "mildly".
Norm
Last edited by Norm Peterson; 08-14-2009 at 12:26 PM.
08-14-2009, 02:07 PM
#30
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 940
I have had great success with Toyo tires and Yokahama tires, when it comes to performance tires. I run BFG's on my car, but it's more of a strip car than a road racer.
These will all depend on your suspension.
Toyos
Fronts or all 4's:
http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse....ShowLarge=True
Rears or all 4's:
http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse....ShowLarge=True
These come in 14", but only 205 & 215 sizes.
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/avid_t4.aspx
These will all depend on your suspension.
Toyos
Fronts or all 4's:
http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse....ShowLarge=True
Rears or all 4's:
http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse....ShowLarge=True
These come in 14", but only 205 & 215 sizes.
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/avid_t4.aspx