FoMoJoe

With all the ethanol talk, I think it's about time I start reviewing my options for a new fuel line since now I run a rubber hose from the tank to the carb. Don't feel like rebuilding my carb jets down the road or dealing w/ cracked hoses.

Seams like if you even use a stainless steel braided hose, you need a teflon coat in the inside of the hose or else it will break down too.

Running straight aluminum would make best sense. What did you guys do out there?

Summit sells some different aluminum hoses/pipe. What thickness to a mechanical fuel pump to Holley 650 for a 347? 3/8"? 1/2?

67t5ponycoupe

Are you saying you are running E85 in your classic Mustang? I thought that was only for flex fuel vehicles. I know they are putting some alcohol in some of the gas out there but I'm not sure it is neccessary to modify your car because of that.

az1966

I run with old fashion metal as far as possible, then switch to teflon/plastic? lined hose for the final hook up to the carb,,,,cuts down on misc stuff showing up in the carb bowl I don't know if it'll work for you but it's been working for me

tcrote5516

Reg fuel has 10% ethanol that can damage some rubber lines. Most rubber today is made to handle it without an issue. You don't need to change anything out. I doubt your talking about running actual e85 in a classic mustang. If you are, well then you have a lot more to swap out then just fuel lines.

ozarks06

Unless you are burning E85 (which is, in the summer anyway, 85% ethanol) you probably don't need to worry too much. Most gas is now about 10% ethanol. It will dry out rubber lines and corrodes some metals, such as aluminum and tin (e.g. terne coated full lines and tanks), but there isn't enough ethanol in most gas to cause too many problems (especially with carburated engines).

If, on the other hand, you want to burn E85 as your primary fuel (which has a lot of performance advantages, if your engine can take advantage of it - e.g. high compression or boost) you will need to redo your whole fuel system. You will need to start by replacing your fuel tank with a stainless steel tank (or some type of plastic tank rated for ethanol), replace your terne-coated factory-type fuel lines with stainless lines or stainless-wrapped rubber hose (also rated for ethanol), replace your fuel pump with an electric one (most likely with a separate pressure regulator), and replace your carb with one designed for ethanol.

You don't want to use aluminum as ethanol corrodes it. Your best bet is stainless-wrapped hose like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632060/

tcrote5516

Oh to answer the question, 3/8 lines are fine for your setup.

PaulS

The only reason you might need to change lines when switching to E85 is that there might be rust in the lines. Ethanol is a good solvent and it will clean the rust from your tank and lines clogging filters and depositing lots of that stuff in your carb.
If you bought that rubber hose in the last 20 years the it is already ethanol rated just like all the fuel hose for sale.

kalli

E-85 is higher octane fuel (100+), you should get yourself a carb being able to handle that and be jetted for it, there are manufacturers who sell metering blocks for E85 conversion
you'd need to adjust ignition I'm quite sure,
you'd need a fuel pump that can cope with it as well.
So basically the whole fuel system should be changed over. the ethanol would clean out your fuel system, so it would probably pull a lot of crap with it, so you'd need to change filters regularly, but you said already you'd hav a new tank

I was thinking about it in the past but we just don't have enough petrol stations with E85. there's 3 in the city I live in, probably a few more in dublin, but nearly nothing on the countryside. when converted to E85 I couldn't possibly run gas anymore.

there's a huge misconception about the ethanol in fuel. People think it's bad because you get less gas mileage. the reason for it is that the ethanol is so good they can use crappy petrol with it to achieve the same octane ratings. if it were 'normal pump gas' +ethanol your car would be going a lot better in my opinion. that's not how they make their money though

there's a user here who even makes his own fuel (ethanol based and knows a lot about it therefore), THUMPIN455, maybe he'll join in ... haven't seen him around here for a while ... maybe those posts help a bit:
http://www.google.ie/search?q=thumpi...ient=firefox-a

2+2GT

I avoid ethanol like the Black Death. It is sill possible to buy real gasoline in some areas, and there are a few such stations around here.

Where to find real gasoline:
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp
(Sorry Kalli, it only covers the US and Canada)

One of the congressmen who helped write the original ethanol law now considers it the greatest mistake of his career, and has introduced a repeal. Even Al Gore, who cast the tie-breaking vote to pass the law, now says ethanol was a huge mistake. I doubt anything will change with you-know-who in the White House, though.

I get 10% better mileage with pure gasoline than I do with 10% ethanol. So basically, the whole ethanol thing was a waste of time, it just acts like air in the fuel, except you have to pay for it. Currently, 40% of the corn grown in America goes into ethanol production. Considering all the hunger in the world, that's a shocking waste of farmland.

I have also seen what ethanol does to older fuel systems, like fuel pumps and carburetors.

ozarks06

Actually the issue with original-style fuel lines, even steel lines you buy from places like Summit Racing, is that they are lined with terne, a tin/lead alloy, and ethanol will cause that to corrode and come off the lines and end up in your carb or fuel injectors. The original-style fuel tanks are also terne-lined, which is why you have to go to stainless to burn E85. You can't have anything with copper, tin, lead, aluminum (unless it's anodized), natural rubber, or cork anywhere in the fuel system. Burning E85 does require a complete new fuel system (I know, I spent the money to do it after much research). You also need 50% more fuel capacity since E85 has less energy per gallon than gas (so that means bigger pumps, bigger jets or injectors). It doesn't burn 50% more fuel (about 20% on average) but for WOT you need to figure 50%.

The advantage to E85, from a performance perspective, is that it has a higher effective octane rating, around 105 for summer blend (85% ethanol). That means you can safely run more compression, more boost, and more timing. It is only an advantage if your engine can take advantage of the higher octane, such as running high compression or boost (or both). For the average car, ethanol doesn't do much but lower some emissions (and gas mileage), so there's no advantage to converting to E85 for a N/A car that will run fine on pump gas.

However, if you have high compression (probably over 11:1 in a SBF or higher in mod motors) or have boost, E85 allows you to run a lot more timing and virtually eliminate detonation (you can actually advance timing past peak torque before getting detonation). Tests on a stock 04 Mach 1 showed they were able to increase the timing enough to get almost 10% more HP with E85 - 30 HP (5.0 Mustang, Dec 2009), and on a mildly modified 04 Cobra, netted 30 HP more (5.0 Mustang, Sept 2007). There are some guys running insane boost (like 25# turbos) on 10.5:1 Terminators with E85, and seeing much greater gains with E85. It is the 'poor man's racing gas' (or the 'thinking man's racing gas').

You do get less mileage, but because of those nasty ethanol subsidies, it is actually (for me) 1 cent/mile more than regular (which I can't burn) and 1 cent/mile LESS than 91 octane gas. I was not in favor of E85 until Thumpin455 got me thinking about it an researching it. It provides a way for me to run a roots blower on a high-compression motor safely. Again, if you don't have an engine that can take advantage of the higher octane (and most engines can't) there isn't any reason to convert. But if you want to run a lot of boost (and not mess with methanol injection) or pay crazy prices for race gas, and can get E85 where you live, it is a good move to get max performance.