Classic Mustangs (Tech) Technical discussions about the Mustangs of yester-year.

Cleavland or Windsor?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 21, 2005 | 08:19 PM
  #11  
69FECoupe's Avatar
69FECoupe
3rd Gear Member
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 686
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

Here is some good small block information: http://www.classiccar.com/articles/F...ck_History.asp
Old Oct 24, 2005 | 03:57 AM
  #12  
Shifty101Easy's Avatar
Shifty101Easy
5th Gear Member
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,707
From: San Francisco
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

what exactly is a canted valve?
Old Oct 24, 2005 | 04:34 AM
  #13  
Frankus's Avatar
Frankus
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 48
From: Half Moon Bay, CA
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_engines

Heres articles on all ford engines.
Old Oct 24, 2005 | 08:40 AM
  #14  
Soaring's Avatar
Soaring
I ♥ Acer
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,565
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?


ORIGINAL: Shifty101Easy

what exactly is a canted valve?
That means they are put in at an angle instead of vertical.
Here is some good info on the 351W vs. 351C argument.
http://lists.twistedpair.ca/pipermai...er/031582.html
Old Oct 26, 2005 | 12:30 AM
  #15  
mustangmatt's Avatar
mustangmatt
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

The quickest / easiest way to tell if you are looking at a 351C is to check the upper radiator hose. On the cleveland the hose goes straight into the block. On the 351 windsor the radiator hose goes into the intake manifold. The intake manifold on a 351C is dry. The cleveland is also a good bit wider. As mentioned in previous posts, the cleveland designation is only used to describe the 351 engines built from 1970-1974. 289's are not technically considered a windsor. BTW... 351 Windsor heads on a 289 small block is an awesome setup! My brother's got that exact setup in his 68 coupe - very quick, and responsive. I'm a bit partial to the 351C, as that's what I've got in my 68 coupe. It's a tight fit (a real knuckle buster trying to change spark plugs) but I digress...
Old Oct 26, 2005 | 09:53 PM
  #16  
hutchamatic's Avatar
hutchamatic
2nd Gear Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 320
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

The 351 C heads will bolt on a 289,302 also. That is how they did the boss 302.
Old Oct 26, 2005 | 10:10 PM
  #17  
mustangmatt's Avatar
mustangmatt
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

Yes, that is true... the heads on a Boss 302 are basically 351C heads.

Mating 351C heads to a Windsor 289/302/351 has become known as a Clevor. It is not, however, a simple straightforward bolt on deal. It requires machining the heads for new water passages and a custom intake manifold to mate the heads to the block. Bush Performance manufactures intake manifolds for both the 351C 4V and 2V heads in order to build this combo.

There is a good article on Mustang & Fords website explaining the details. Link
Old Oct 26, 2005 | 10:12 PM
  #18  
Shifty101Easy's Avatar
Shifty101Easy
5th Gear Member
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,707
From: San Francisco
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

is there better heads than the cleveland heads out now a days for the 289 that would accomplish the same effect but not need a bunch of work done to them? simple bolt on i mean...?
Old Oct 27, 2005 | 03:11 AM
  #19  
THUMPIN455's Avatar
THUMPIN455
5th Gear Member
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,566
From: Marquette Mi
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

TFS heads work really well on the 289/302 and they are a bolt on deal. Also you can run Edelbrock heads, and Canfield has a nice set as well. For a street engine I would stay with the 180cc ports if you go with TFS.

The main issue with 351W heads on a 289/302 block is the head bolts. You need adapters that fit in the holes because the bolt diameter is smaller on the 289/302. Some aftermarket heads (ie Edelbrock RPM) have the larger bolt holes in them so you need to ask before you buy what size head bolts the heads are for.

I havent been able to find the intake needed to put the C head on a W block, but all you need to do a 302 is swap to pistons cut for the canted valve (ie Boss 302 pistons) and a Boss 302 intake, the 4V heads are WAY TO BIG for a 302 unless you like 9k rpm, 2V heads work alot better and the intake will physically bolt up, there is just a huge mistmatch in the ports. Supposedly bolting a stock 4V intake to 2V heads on a 351C was worth 35hp, so it must not hurt too much.

About the 351C being the first of the 335's, it is similar to 351/400M which uses the same head but a taller deck height, and a different bolt pattern for the trans. Later 302's had the same bolt pattern as 351C's and the 351M had the same pattern as a 429/460. Most people confuse the 351/400M for Clevelands, the 351C was built between 1970 and 1973 only, after that it was an M.

The 351W was very similar to the 302 with the main difference being the deck height as far as blocks go. All of them had the same bore centers and a 4" bore, so head swapping works well. I have a 302, 351W, and a 2V 351C sittin on the floor right now, and a 400M in a 79 4x4, so if you want some pics let me know, I can email them to you..
Old Oct 27, 2005 | 11:14 AM
  #20  
hutchamatic's Avatar
hutchamatic
2nd Gear Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 320
From:
Default RE: Cleavland or Windsor?

I thought they made th 351C through 74.
And I was told that they were called street bosses when you did that change. lol



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.