ISO a Duraspark II Ignition Box with the white plug
03-16-2016, 07:43 AM
#1
Foghorn Leghorn
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I reside in a near constant state of amazment.
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ISO a Duraspark II Ignition Box with the white plug
My Duraspark ignition box melted it's guts out all over my fenderwell and garage floor so I have to use a blue plug unit which really shows its *** while cranking.
The one I had had the white plug which retards the timing 10° while cranking but I'll be damned if I can find a replacement. Blue or green plug units are the only ones I can find so I thought I'd throw out a line and see if anybody knew where I could source a white plug Duraspark II box.
The one I had had the white plug which retards the timing 10° while cranking but I'll be damned if I can find a replacement. Blue or green plug units are the only ones I can find so I thought I'd throw out a line and see if anybody knew where I could source a white plug Duraspark II box.
03-16-2016, 08:29 AM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 424
Copied from a post in the Vintage Mustang Forum
Breakerless ignition showed up in North American Ford vehicles in 1974. The first ignitions were not called DuraSpark, they were referred to as breakerless ignitions. The modules had a green wire strain relief with two harnesses, one connecter with 3 pins, and one with 4 pins. These modules "could" vary as to which wires were grouped in which harness, so you had to be mindful when working on these cars, to make sure the person behind the parts counter gave you the right replacement.
In 1977 Ford began referring to the breakerless ignitions as DuraSpark ignitions, and released two modules simultaneously; the DuraSpark I for California, and the DuraSpark II for the rest of North America. The DuraSpark I module was capable of producing a stronger and more consistent spark under varying engine load conditions which Ford found necessary to meet California emissions standards in 1977. Both DuraSpark modules featured spark retard when starting the motor. I am uncertain if that feature was incorporated into the earlier module. Both DuraSpark modules had two harnesses, one with a two pin connector, and one with a 4 pin connector, 6 wires in total. The earlier module with the green strain relief had 7 wires, it had a blue wire that was not carried over into the DuraSpark modules.
The DuraSpark I module had a red wiring strain relief. It was a very sophisticated ignition module, sensing & controlling the currrent in the coil primary as a means of controlling the current and spark quality produced in the coil secondary. It was only installed in California cars, therefore many hot rodders were not and are still not aware of its existence, or the difference between it and the DuraSpark II module. In 1978 Ford found it could meet California emissions regulations with the less expensive DuraSpark II module in all of its motors except the 302 V8. So California cars with the 302 V8 received the DuraSpark I ignition, and California cars equipped with all other motors got the DuraSpark II ignition like the rest of North America. The same applies to 1979 California cars. 1979 I believe was the last year DuraSpark I was installed in any Ford car. Worthy of mention is the safety feature built into the DuraSpark I module; if the distributor rotor is not turning, the module shuts off current to the coil primary, the ignition cannot fire, so it is safe to work on the ignition without fear of being shocked. NOT SO with any other Ford module. Disconnecting the wrong wire on any other Ford module while you are working under the hood can result in triggering the ignition and shocking you with enough current to stop your heart.
The DuraSpark II module introduced in 1977 has a blue wiring strain relief. It is not much different from the early module with green wiring strain relief. Its reliable and provides a nice spark, but it is less sophisticated than the DuraSpark I. Current in the coil primary is controlled just like it was with a breaker point ignition, with a ballast resistance in line with power to the coil. To provide a hotter spark while starting the motor, there is a second wire supplying the coil that bypasses the ballast resistor to provide full battery voltage when the ignition key is in the start position. This module is the most common module for retro-fitting breakerless ignition to early cars, simply because many people are not aware of the existence of the DuraSpark I module, or they are not aware of the differences. Its also worth mentioning this module can kill you while you are working on the motor unless precautions are taken to avoid an accidental discharge of the ignition!
After 1977 Ford developed other ignition modules with white, brown or yellow wiring strain reliefs that have other features that are unneeded or even undesireable for retro-fitting breakerless ignition. I found in my experience with them that all of the other modules had 3 wiring harnesses. They are designed to work with input from sensors, such as knock sensors, altitude sensors, MAP sensors, etc, and they are designed to control spark timing based on those inputs, to compensate for knock, altitude, engine load, etc. Or they are designed to work in conjunction with Ford's early "EEC" engine management systems. Some of these modules were called DuraSpark II, others DuraSpark III, and beginning in 1981 there was also the "universal" module.
Installation Notes:
1. When purchasing a module for your car, buy it from Ford! The Ford manufactured modules are very reliable. Reliability of the aftermarket modules is hit or miss.
2. DuraSpark modules use a high voltage coil made specifically for DuraSpark ignition. Use the Ford DuraSpark coil or DuraSpark specific replacement. Do not use a breaker point ignition coil.
3. DurSpark coils are oil filled and must be mounted oriented vertically, with the top higher than the bottom. They must not be mounted laying horizontally.
4. Painless Wiring sells a wiring harness for DuraSpark II conversions. It should be applicable for DuraSpak I conversions too, as there is very little difference in the wiring between the two ignitions. It is available at Summit Racing under part number PRF-30812, or JEGS under part number 764-30812.
5. DuraSpark distributors for the 351C will be sourced from a 1977 through 1982 Ford vehicle equipped with a 351M, 400 or 460 cubic inch V8.
6. A ballast resistor suitable for DuraSpark II installations is available from NAPA Auto Parts, NAPA part number ICR23 (1.2 ohms).
I have heard that the DS I with the red strain relief was a "problem child" and
the other 50% say it's a good module...... go figure.
Breakerless ignition showed up in North American Ford vehicles in 1974. The first ignitions were not called DuraSpark, they were referred to as breakerless ignitions. The modules had a green wire strain relief with two harnesses, one connecter with 3 pins, and one with 4 pins. These modules "could" vary as to which wires were grouped in which harness, so you had to be mindful when working on these cars, to make sure the person behind the parts counter gave you the right replacement.
In 1977 Ford began referring to the breakerless ignitions as DuraSpark ignitions, and released two modules simultaneously; the DuraSpark I for California, and the DuraSpark II for the rest of North America. The DuraSpark I module was capable of producing a stronger and more consistent spark under varying engine load conditions which Ford found necessary to meet California emissions standards in 1977. Both DuraSpark modules featured spark retard when starting the motor. I am uncertain if that feature was incorporated into the earlier module. Both DuraSpark modules had two harnesses, one with a two pin connector, and one with a 4 pin connector, 6 wires in total. The earlier module with the green strain relief had 7 wires, it had a blue wire that was not carried over into the DuraSpark modules.
The DuraSpark I module had a red wiring strain relief. It was a very sophisticated ignition module, sensing & controlling the currrent in the coil primary as a means of controlling the current and spark quality produced in the coil secondary. It was only installed in California cars, therefore many hot rodders were not and are still not aware of its existence, or the difference between it and the DuraSpark II module. In 1978 Ford found it could meet California emissions regulations with the less expensive DuraSpark II module in all of its motors except the 302 V8. So California cars with the 302 V8 received the DuraSpark I ignition, and California cars equipped with all other motors got the DuraSpark II ignition like the rest of North America. The same applies to 1979 California cars. 1979 I believe was the last year DuraSpark I was installed in any Ford car. Worthy of mention is the safety feature built into the DuraSpark I module; if the distributor rotor is not turning, the module shuts off current to the coil primary, the ignition cannot fire, so it is safe to work on the ignition without fear of being shocked. NOT SO with any other Ford module. Disconnecting the wrong wire on any other Ford module while you are working under the hood can result in triggering the ignition and shocking you with enough current to stop your heart.
The DuraSpark II module introduced in 1977 has a blue wiring strain relief. It is not much different from the early module with green wiring strain relief. Its reliable and provides a nice spark, but it is less sophisticated than the DuraSpark I. Current in the coil primary is controlled just like it was with a breaker point ignition, with a ballast resistance in line with power to the coil. To provide a hotter spark while starting the motor, there is a second wire supplying the coil that bypasses the ballast resistor to provide full battery voltage when the ignition key is in the start position. This module is the most common module for retro-fitting breakerless ignition to early cars, simply because many people are not aware of the existence of the DuraSpark I module, or they are not aware of the differences. Its also worth mentioning this module can kill you while you are working on the motor unless precautions are taken to avoid an accidental discharge of the ignition!
After 1977 Ford developed other ignition modules with white, brown or yellow wiring strain reliefs that have other features that are unneeded or even undesireable for retro-fitting breakerless ignition. I found in my experience with them that all of the other modules had 3 wiring harnesses. They are designed to work with input from sensors, such as knock sensors, altitude sensors, MAP sensors, etc, and they are designed to control spark timing based on those inputs, to compensate for knock, altitude, engine load, etc. Or they are designed to work in conjunction with Ford's early "EEC" engine management systems. Some of these modules were called DuraSpark II, others DuraSpark III, and beginning in 1981 there was also the "universal" module.
Installation Notes:
1. When purchasing a module for your car, buy it from Ford! The Ford manufactured modules are very reliable. Reliability of the aftermarket modules is hit or miss.
2. DuraSpark modules use a high voltage coil made specifically for DuraSpark ignition. Use the Ford DuraSpark coil or DuraSpark specific replacement. Do not use a breaker point ignition coil.
3. DurSpark coils are oil filled and must be mounted oriented vertically, with the top higher than the bottom. They must not be mounted laying horizontally.
4. Painless Wiring sells a wiring harness for DuraSpark II conversions. It should be applicable for DuraSpak I conversions too, as there is very little difference in the wiring between the two ignitions. It is available at Summit Racing under part number PRF-30812, or JEGS under part number 764-30812.
5. DuraSpark distributors for the 351C will be sourced from a 1977 through 1982 Ford vehicle equipped with a 351M, 400 or 460 cubic inch V8.
6. A ballast resistor suitable for DuraSpark II installations is available from NAPA Auto Parts, NAPA part number ICR23 (1.2 ohms).
I have heard that the DS I with the red strain relief was a "problem child" and
the other 50% say it's a good module...... go figure.
03-16-2016, 09:28 AM
#3
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 100
Good info from BOP.
I may have one out of the Ranchero. I hadn't looked at the colors of plugs, but will look later today after the winds and rains quit.
We're going with an HEI in the 69 when the swap is completed.
I may have one out of the Ranchero. I hadn't looked at the colors of plugs, but will look later today after the winds and rains quit.
We're going with an HEI in the 69 when the swap is completed.
03-16-2016, 09:56 AM
#4
Foghorn Leghorn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I reside in a near constant state of amazment.
Posts: 2,923
That is some good poop.
I have used that particular box with the white plug for almost 20 years until for whatever reason it decided to melt it's guts out all over the place. Originally I had the blue plug and got the "wront, wront vroom" drag when I started the engine.
After I installed the white plug box I got "Vroom!" It backed off the timing during cranking and worked like a charm.
Since I have had to go back to the blue plug I'm getting "wront, wront vroom" which is embarrassing and having to listen to everybody tell me, "You need to back your timing off".
I actually found one, I think, on NPD website but they have it listed as being for a 2.3 turbo model. I'm thinking about ponying up the 40.00 and getting one just to see if it does the trick.
I have used that particular box with the white plug for almost 20 years until for whatever reason it decided to melt it's guts out all over the place. Originally I had the blue plug and got the "wront, wront vroom" drag when I started the engine.
After I installed the white plug box I got "Vroom!" It backed off the timing during cranking and worked like a charm.
Since I have had to go back to the blue plug I'm getting "wront, wront vroom" which is embarrassing and having to listen to everybody tell me, "You need to back your timing off".
I actually found one, I think, on NPD website but they have it listed as being for a 2.3 turbo model. I'm thinking about ponying up the 40.00 and getting one just to see if it does the trick.
03-17-2016, 10:57 PM
#5
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hills of California
Posts: 5,208
No help with your duraspark thing but ehh if you have a few hunert bucks sitting around the MSD E curve has been good to me.
Its kind of goofy at first and takes a bit to get your head around its technology but it has proven to be a reliable system so far (like 2 years daily driven no issues) I run mine with the msd digital a6 box as well but its not required.
The e curve has no counter weights, springs, bushings, or mechanical vac advance. It does had digital vac advance and simulated digital timing curves and prestart timing retard (may only be available if you run locked out timing). It can not advance timing only retard it so you set timing to max (say 32deg) initial and then pick a curve to adjust that. Its slightly limited in what it can do but meets my needs.
Might be worth a look.
-Gun
Its kind of goofy at first and takes a bit to get your head around its technology but it has proven to be a reliable system so far (like 2 years daily driven no issues) I run mine with the msd digital a6 box as well but its not required.
The e curve has no counter weights, springs, bushings, or mechanical vac advance. It does had digital vac advance and simulated digital timing curves and prestart timing retard (may only be available if you run locked out timing). It can not advance timing only retard it so you set timing to max (say 32deg) initial and then pick a curve to adjust that. Its slightly limited in what it can do but meets my needs.
Might be worth a look.
-Gun
03-18-2016, 07:07 AM
#6
Foghorn Leghorn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I reside in a near constant state of amazment.
Posts: 2,923
That might be a suggestion whose time has come. I have been looking at an MSD setup for years but couldn't justify it because the Duraspark II has been as reliable as an anvil. I'm not quite done beating the bushes just yet but, E-curve, eh?
I hadn't heard of that. I'll have to check that out. Thanks.
I hadn't heard of that. I'll have to check that out. Thanks.
03-18-2016, 08:50 AM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 424
Did not know this unit until you mentioned it. Question, since it has a reluctor pickup why doesn't it use the pick up pulse divided by the number of cylinders to know the RPM in stead of a tach input which is usually taken from the coil?
I was wondering about part throttle vacuum but I see it does have a vacuum advance.
Did you play with the different curves? How did you select the vacuum curve?
I was wondering about part throttle vacuum but I see it does have a vacuum advance.
Did you play with the different curves? How did you select the vacuum curve?
03-18-2016, 04:29 PM
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hills of California
Posts: 5,208
I use my a6 box for tach output. I dont know about your first question. The E curve has a built in adjustable rev limiter that you simply turn a dial to the desired limit...it also seems to work well and be repeatable and reliable.
It has 2 separate dials that correlate to a graph. Im trying to remember offhand but if you set total to 32 deg. You can pick say graph point 4, 9 that would be 20 deg adv all in at 2,500 + 10deg vac advance above say 10inHg that leaves you with 12 deg base timing. (Or some idea like that...you'll want to download the manual and give it a read) Yes it has less than 100 options to pick from so it does have some limitations.
-Gun
It has 2 separate dials that correlate to a graph. Im trying to remember offhand but if you set total to 32 deg. You can pick say graph point 4, 9 that would be 20 deg adv all in at 2,500 + 10deg vac advance above say 10inHg that leaves you with 12 deg base timing. (Or some idea like that...you'll want to download the manual and give it a read) Yes it has less than 100 options to pick from so it does have some limitations.
-Gun
03-20-2016, 08:08 PM
#9
Foghorn Leghorn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I reside in a near constant state of amazment.
Posts: 2,923
I sourced a DSII box with the white plug. NPD sells them and has them listed as being for the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder so I am almost positive it will do the trick since the last one I sourced years ago was for a 4 cylinder Pinto.
It's going to cost me 40.00 to find out.
I've spent more on less.
It's going to cost me 40.00 to find out.
I've spent more on less.
03-23-2016, 05:55 PM
#10
Foghorn Leghorn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: I reside in a near constant state of amazment.
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Update:
The module came in today. The website said that it was a repop so I was expecting some Chicom piece of crap but much to my pleasant surprise it was a box made by Standard and made right here in the good ol' U.S. of A.
I plugged it up and it worked just like I knew it would. Now the fastback fires off without any drag whatsoever. Turn the key and 'VROOM!'
The module came in today. The website said that it was a repop so I was expecting some Chicom piece of crap but much to my pleasant surprise it was a box made by Standard and made right here in the good ol' U.S. of A.
I plugged it up and it worked just like I knew it would. Now the fastback fires off without any drag whatsoever. Turn the key and 'VROOM!'