so what is the difference betweena a 351 cleveland and a 351 Windsor? i hear windsor parts are easier to find. Did they stick both kinds in the cars back then? not at the same time of course, but were they made with both?

 

The 351 W is the largest of the Windsor engine family consisting of 223 , 260 , 289 , 302 and 351 CID in various sizes. These engines all share the same basic characteristics aside from deck height rod length etc... The early 223, and 260's also used a 5 bolt bell housing etc...

On the other hand, the 351 C is an animal all it's own. It is similar to the 429-460 "Lima" family and it is a sister engine to the 351-400 M " Midland" series. The Cleveland is commonly called a big block depending on who it is making the reference. It is physically much wider and taller than the Windsors. In addition the Cleveland utilizes MONSTER ports even on the smaller 2 barrel heads. The 351 C was Fords small block entry into Nascar just about the time they pulled out of racing. It was a canted valve, high flowing torque monster that would pull very hard once it reached 3000 RPM and up.

The 351 C head can be used on the 302/351 W blocks with proper head gaskets and a simple relocation of the water passages to mate up with the block. These changes are simple and can easily be accomplished at any competent machine shop. The BOSS 302 of 1969-1970 used exactly this technology and were an instant hit on the racing scene at the time of their introduction. They made gobs of horsepower and the torque from these little engines would rip the fillings loose in your teeth.

Get yourself a Ford engines buildup book and read up on the "Clevor" Cleveland headed Windsor cross breeds. In my opinion they are hands down the best bang for the buck on the planet. Hope this helps, Dean

 

ya clevors were damn good and u got a crap load more compression outta them compared to the windsors but now like u said u got the cross breeds which im gonna end up doing once i can get ahold of some of those nice heads.....

clevors are usually more $$$ and ne upgrades to them usually the same result but if u can find a 351c in good condition...thats worth a bit

 

When I get the Cleveland back from the machine shop friday, maybe I will take some pics of it as I build it, and a few of the Windsor I have on the ground, could get dimensional differences between the 351W and 302 as well since they are sitting side by side right now.

Clevelands arent massively wider than Windsors, some but not a huge amount considering how wide a 390 or 460 is, and certainly not a 4.6L. The exhaust ports are longer in the C head but the deck is shorter. A Cleveland is close in height to a W, but the W had an intake that sits lower to clear the hoods on some cars. That is one of the drawbacks to the W motor.

I'll do some pics and measurements for you guys, then Glen can put it in the faq..

 

sweet thanks thumpin. probably gonna go with a 351w myself but it looks like its kinda a cross-breed
http://www.fordcobraengines.com/351_400Horsepower.htm

im excited

 

reaokcement oarts for ckevlands are harder to find? more expensive? pretty much the same as Windsors?

 

replacement parts for cleavelands i meant

 

That would be a great FAQ addition. Bring it......

 

i got a 351 cleveland and yea aftermarket parts are more expensive for the cleveland but that torque and sound makes it all worth it in the long run. !! i got orginal 4v heads on my cleveland!!

 

Ya got two sets of 4V heads, one set is on a 4 bolt main block. I traded a rusted out 72 coupe for it, no drivetrain and a 8" open rear. Pulled it apart to find 4 bolt mains.. About floored me, I thought it was just a simple ol 4V headed C block.. Obviously since I am sellin the 71, it wont be getting the 4 bolt block, its keeping the original 2V engine and trans. I cant believe its numbers matching right down to the differential.

I'll get started on the pics and stuff this week Glen.