geetee03

mythbusters FTW

GreyStang

Wow you sure do a lot of research lol. and I'm not knocking the concept of using electric motors to power accessories,, in fact I keep an impartial view to any thought or opinion. For a few of the latest issues... power steering? Well if it matters, it takes a lot less effort to turn a power steering pump in a car than it does an A/C compressor. It doesn't surprise me thatelectric power steering is being used. And as far as "does a badass car sterio eat horsepower", yea I think it does. A very tiny amount but probably noticable. I wonder if someone who has a dyno wouldn't mind doing back-to-back runs & play some Metallica LOUD on the 2nd pass

And, using electric drives will tax the alternator, but you can always stick a bigger one of those on if needed. I think the reason most car makers use direct belt drive is simple.. A/C compressors, power steering pumps, etc, need rotational energy to function..... the car's engine is rotating already so,, why NOT just stick a belt between the two? Why drive an alternator just so you can spin a motor to operate the accessory?

And, the Toyota Priius is a hybrid car.. isn't half of it's "engine" an electric motor?

NeoTokyo

HAHAHA!!! My wife said that you would say that about the prius! It doesnt matter that its an electric car, the first generation used a standard belt style. They went that way with the tech because it lowered emissions, improved economy and improved power when engaged. I have the .pdf if you would like to read through it. The file shows a comparison between the 1st gen and 2nd gen Prius. Honestly though, there isnt a generational difference, they just changed their plans midway through with a few things and its easier to say "Gen" There are also other Euro luxury and sports cars that utilized the electric AC clutch.

Now supposedly a larger alt does eat more ponies to produce the extra power, im going based off of the math that I have seen so far, that does make sense in that factor that you are raising the output.

As for the stereo.....

FUEL GIVE ME FIRE, GIVE ME THAT WHICH I DESIRE!!!!
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Oh damn 10hp less [:@]

LOL

And thanks for the "I do a lot of research" part. I try to

mustangman02232

they revisited it


<55 ac off windows down
>55 windows up ac on

GreyStang

Well this topic is interesting but is giving me a headache lol

That's fine if you can come up with actual energy draw ratings etc comparing an elecric drive motor to a gasoline engine. But it all boils down to this.. (correct me if I'm misunderstanding something...)

-An A/C compressor requires 15hp to operate (as an example)

- You can run a belt of the engine to spin it directly. This will of course consume power from the engine (parasitic loss). So what you're thinking is...

- Stick an alternator on that engine instead. Use it to make power to run an electric motor that can produce 15horsepower & drive the A/C compressor with that..(?)

And you're thinking the 2nd option will be more efficient for some reason? That the alternator will have less drag on the engine than the A/Ccompressor does?

I'm thinking there are gonna be some huge technology breakthroughs in electric powerin the near future especially if they can perfect a room-temperature superconductor. But until that day, give me a belt drive for my A/C

NeoTokyo

lol

Even with the facts in place you still dont believe me, thats alright

Also even though we are talking 1-2hp loss when the AC clutch is disengaged, over time that adds up to gas saved, a long time, but still more efficient. If you get rid of 3 belt driven accessories that is an automatic 3-6hp saved in just removing that tension and shortening the belt, not to mention the additional power that we have free'ed up now.

When it all comes down to it, to each his own

When it becomes more popular and design is improved then I am sure you will like it more

anyways thats it for me and this convo, I think we both had a good time debating this and I learned more than I came into the convo with, so thanks for the drive to do the research

later.


-Eric-

GreyStang

Yea it has been a good question worthy of debate

..you'll probably be happy to see some of the pure electric drive concept cars in the drawing boards.. they literally have no driveline at all! At each wheel right in the hub will be a "pankake" electric motor that push in unison to move the car forward,, AND when the car is stopping they turn into regenerative braking generators to feed energy back to the batteries. Cool eh? No "engine" no transmission, no driveshafts, no differentials, nothing mechanical at all! The other bonus is, no underbody area is wasted conforming to a driveline [8D]

NeoTokyo

Damn thats extreem, I think I would miss my stangs bulky underside though

I have heard about the regenerative braking but I didnt know that they had gone to such an extreem version with the drive motor on each hub. Course this may not be that extreem in a few short years.

Colorado_Mustang

Hybrids use electric drive accessories so you can run the AC without turning on the engine.

Here's a bit of 'research' for ya...go to your local college and walk into the Electrical Engineering department. Ask them the same question. Be polite, or they'll laugh you out of the building. I spent 4 years in that department. The ONLY reason for electric drive from a gas/diesel engine is for packaging (not including hybrid drives). See "locomotive" for further information.

NeoTokyo

Actually I did, one of my co-workers is an Electrical Engineering major and Mathmatics and he couldnt give me an absolute answer, he said it was based on efficency and power of the engine to Volts watt conversion to amps.

If you are correct then how come I found so many auto manufacturors that use electric drive units that arent hybrids? There has to be a reason for it, and not to start a damn war but you were a little snappy back there [:'(]

I still feel that I am correct in that horsepower can be free'ed up from the use of electrical drive units because our charging system are not at 100% kilt not to mention based on the battery we have we have the capacity to use a larger charge for longer periods of time, careful not to overtax the system or you will know with a dead batter.

Anyways like I said, im through with this convo because instead of ranting about it I am just going to do it. I am going to buy the Flaming River sportsman electric rack, a Mosier electric water pump and an Electric drive unit to adapt my AC. Dont worry I will dyno test the rack and AC units for you [>:]