vachepie

Posting this info about SSBC a few times so everybody knows the truth... SSBC is junk.

I have had so many problems with their products now twice (I made the mistake of thinking they had gotten better, so tried them on a second car) that I cannot believe they are still in business.

Pick your problem: wrong parts shipped, poor finish on calipers, endless delays on replacement rotors, and very poor pad options for their "special" pad shape in one kit. All the service people there are morons and never call back when there is a problem, or they are all conveniently "at a show".

Pick anything other than SSBC. If you can still return what you bought, get your money back ASAP!!!

I have also used StopTech - another mistake. Their drilled rotors clog up causing pedal vibration and their "super" calipers are "super poor". Despite their claims of caliper rigidity, they deform badly when used on the track. I had to pry the reinforcement plate out to change pads and could not even get it back in! Honestly no surprise, what did I expect out of Chinese made calipers? They are really big on the R&D budget for marketing but not product.

Brembo and AP are awesome if pricey, Baer has great options, and Wilwood gives a hell of a bargain for quality parts. Stick with those name brands!!!

classj

I would stick with baer or brembo.

Wilwood usually are good for track use and not much else. Only now are they starting to build calipers with dust seals to keep the crap out of the bores. Otherwise caliper rebuilds are commonplace on street cars running their calipers.

Baer seems to make good stuff.

Personally, Good pads will help, as will good brake fluid like ATE gold. Stainless braided lines sometimes help, sometimes do not, depends on the car. Also make sure that you get DOT approved and certified stainless lines that pass the DOT whip test along with all the others. Ask for the DOT cert form and file it in a safe place.

If you install lines that are not DOT certified, and they break and you hit a pedestrian or hurt someone in another car, etc. You will be personally liable I believe.

Other than the above, and pads, fluid, and hoses shouldent run more than $250 or so. I would hold out for a front wheel only fixed caliper brembo setup with larger rotors. Or possible just order GT-500 parts and do the swap if it is possible.

vachepie

I got this info from a reputable brake supplier. There is no such thing as DOT approved. The Department of Transportation does not maintain any testing facilities and the specifications are guidelines, not strict laws. All that exists is DOT compliant. There is absolutely no official paperwork as compliance on the part of brake line companies is voluntary which explains why you can buy noncompliant parts. DOT compliant parts are marked DOT and that is all you get.

F1Fan

Hi vachepie,

I don't doubt you had problems with SSBC brakes. I don't hear many good things about them when they are heavily used on the race track but a lot of people like then on the car show circuits and on the street.

I was wondering what model StopTech brakes were you having a problem with? On the race track StopTech has an excellent track record. On the street I think they are offering the best brake packages for ABS equipped cars due to the excellent brake balance they achieve. Baer and Brembo are excellent street/sport brake products but are simply not as well tuned for the cars they are installed on. On a dedicated track car without ABS and a brake proportioning valve installed the brake balance issue is moot (as long as both ends have adequate clamp force capability for the vehicle weight), and it's all about clamp pressure and heat dissipation, all the rest is roughly equal no matter what brand brakes you use. On a street car it's all about reliability, brake balance, bite and ABS compatibility.

I've installed a couple of StopTech's big brake kits front and rear on a BMW E46 M3, a 996 Porsche C2, and C5 Corvette and fronts only on a 375FWHP VW MkIV Jetta all with excellent results on the street and on the race track. None of them had any vibration problems on the race course if the rotors and pads were seasoned correctly, this is CRITICAL. Maybe you had a rotor/pad interface problem, did you bother to call StopTech and ask them about your vibration problems? The 996 C2 Porsche and C5 Corvette both of which see a lot of track time have gone through a lot of rotors and pads as is NORMAL for a heavily track driven car.

As to your problem with the calipers what re-enforcement plate are you talking about? Do you mean the bridge? Were the brakes hot? Maybe you had an installation problem and you did not realize it until you tried to pull the pads. If the bridge was jammed you may have had an alignment problem where the rotor was cocked due to an installation problem. Did you call and talk to StopTech about your problem?

Just trying to understand where you had a problem so I can avoid it in the future.


Cheers

Driver72

The Bremspeed are "stock" size as it says in their ad.
So you are getting much improved rotors, pads, and lines
which will...as they say, "drastically" improve braking, but
you are not getting a larger diameter rotor.

Which in some cases isn't needed or desired for someone who
just wants a better brake kit for the street and reduce
rotational mass.

classj

Maybe not DOT tested. But meeting DOT tests and passing them is certainly possible and advisable. I got a set for my mopar from classic tube. Their website states the following:

What makes a hose D.O.T. certified?
The Department of Transportation (D.O.T.) has developed a set of standards, FMVSS # 06 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard), to which all flexible hoses must perform without failing under extreme conditions. In order to be certified the hose must pass the "whip" test. STOPFLEX® hose's 4 layer design has proved superior under testing conditions and have surpassed D.O.T. conditions.


I have a dated certificate from them stating that the hoses meet DOT standards and are DOT compliant. So if one does snap, I can honestly have something to show someone that according to what I was told, they were DOT compliant and street legal.

There are alot of really crappy lines out there. Make sure you get good ones that are wrapped in clear vinyl. Otherwise dirt gets between the teflon core and the stainless and abraids the line. Also the ends have to be shaped in a certain way to make sure they cant cut into the hose.

Classis tube lines are known to be good. I am sure there are better ones out there as well. I have seen ones with moulded plastic ends that look interesting.

classj

Here is the link to their catalog.

http://www.classictube.com/pdfs/clas...medquality.pdf

According to their site they have a kit for the 05+ stangs.

Sleeper05

www.irotors.com. i havent put them on yet, but they look GOOD sitting in front of me! and they were only 350 shipped for four rotors.

CrazyAl

Irotors look nice, but I would consider them a cosmetic upgrade ONLY.

Braking power (brake torque) is affected by four things:

1) Line pressure
2) Coefficient of Friction of the brake pad (composition of the pad)
3) Diameter of the rotor
4) Clamping strength of the calipers

Upgrading to "aftermarket rotors" that are stock-size, such as the "powerstop rotors" or the Irotors changes none of these.

1) Line pressure can be improved by using a different diameter Master Cylinder (bad for our cars becasue it screws with the ABS system), or by installing stiffer brake lines, such as the braided stainless lines that were mentioned earlier. This is a good, but relatively minor, mod.

2) "Race" style brake pads have a higher coefficient of friction. This is a great bang-for-your buck upgrade becasue it's cheap and easy to install--another good, but still minor mod. The downside is that these "race" pads usually wear out faster, and many also wear out your rotors faster.

3) Larger diameter rotors are one of the best possible mods--I would say the #1 brake mod. The larger rotors offer better brake torque AND better cooling for reduce fade. This makes a major difference in performance. Unfortunatley, larger rotors are expensive and they usually require a lot of "accessory" hardware like new calipers or at least caliper brackets.

4) Upgraded calipers tend to have a stiffer construction and also more piston surface area. This lets them clamp harder. Like #3 this is a major upgrade, but with similar complexity. Upgraded calipers often require new bracketry, hoses, and so forth.


That being said, any sort of SERIOUS brake upgrade is going to consist of larger rotors, better calipers, and hopefully some good pads & lines to go with it. I agree with the earlier recommendations of Brembo, Wilwood, and Baer. Those are the brands (especially the first two) that you see on REAL "cost-no-object" race cars. That "serious" of a system might not be needed if you just want nice looking parts for your show car or a minor upgrade for fun on the street. But I would be very wary of a product that claimed "enhanced brake performance" that didn't offer at least an oversized pair of rotors and the appropriate bracketry. Comparing a "pads and lines" upgrade to a real brake upgrade like a Baer or Wilwood 14" disc package is like comparing a Toyota Camry to a Ferrari. (With the price difference to match, unfortunately).

vachepie

So we have an idea where we're all coming from Ihave done many big brake installs from many companies on many platforms. I help so many friends with racecar prep that sometimes I think I am a closet race tech!

I mean the Stoptech bridge plate. There was no installation problem with the Stoptechs, and I did call them. Rotor was dead on straight. My case is not isolated as thee are many others that have had the problem with track-use deformation. The calipers do not have the stiffness they claim. The rotor hole clogging looked like their hole size or chamfer was the fault. Does not matter to me anymore, I dont use drilled rotors for track use at all.

From talking with other brake manufacturers, there is a lot of interesting info that Stoptech would not want you to hear regarding bias, stiffness, and other details. Your point about ABS and balance - Stoptech has no monopoly on good bias. Brembo is an OEM to Porsche, does anybody really believe that Brembo does not know how to set up bias? Bias is not rocket science. You use a balance bar to adjust for uniqe changes in tire size and suspension setup. The basic complete brake kits from Brembo are great for ABS cars.

As for Stoptech's in racing I'd use them too if they were free or nearly free. Racers like free product and Stoptech gives it out like candy. At the same cost you would see more Brembo, Wilwood, AP, Baer on the track than Stoptech. Stoptech would be great at half the price which is what I would expect for a second tier product basically like SSBC or Tarox or Outlaw.