I have heard people say that the CMCP delete costs you power down low, but I could not find any evidence (like a dyno chart) to back up that statement. Every legit source that I have seen does NOT show an HP loss anywhere, when the mod is done with an updated tune.

The article at 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords shows a gain everywhere (no loss down low). You can read the article and view the dyno chart here: http://mustang50magazine.com/techart...10_cmrc_delete

FWIW, there was another article with similar results in a different Ford magazine that tested the Steeda parts, but I can't recall the title right now. The mag is somewhere in a pile in my garage. Again, there was a dyno chart showing no losses.


Furthermore, I chatted at length with Brent at Brenspeed about the mod. Over the past few months this mod has become more popular--especially now that FRPP has come out with a low-cost kit, and he has logged a great many dyno runs with it in order to work on his tunes. A few months ago he told me that he couldn't recommend the mod becasue he didn't know what the gains were. But now, having done the work, in his experience there is no low-end loss either. Brent actually talked me out of dropping $300 on the Steeda delete kit a few months ago (I was ready to buy) because he wasn't sure of the gains. Here is a guy who isn't afraid to loose sales over his expertise.

Personally, the car felt stronger throughout the RPM range. I did not feel any kind of a loss.

Keep in mind that my car already had intake and Longtubes beforehand.

 

jlt, 3.73, udp, x pipe

 

I installed them not too long ago, and I agree I have felt ZERO loss on the bottom end. And it is an easy install just like everyone else has said.

However I believe that I have lost around 0.5 - 1 mpg after having installed them. Something I hope to get back when I install my Steeda UDPs. I think that is really what the valves were for, gas mileage and emissions. Other than that you can't go wrong for less than $100.

 

Just to clarify Brent does have tunes and does support this mod now correct? I have not talked with him about these but took for granted he would have a good tune for them.

 

That is good news on the 0 loss down low, and it seems to be the popular opinion but did you also feel an increase in power on the top end? I am very interested in your opinion due to your sig not listing LT headers.

I am nervous I will not feel the diference and since I will not be getting on the dyno feel I waisted my money =) I dont think I would feel 5HP but 10-15HP I think I would.

 

I did notice a difference starting at about 4000rpm, especially in my first gear pull. I am running a bamachips tune with mine so that might be part of how his tune runs with the delete plates, but it does feel better.

After I go to the track next weekend I will also be able to give feedback on any gains I made during my runs.

 

For the sake of "science":

a. There is still a missing control in this experiment (other mods present already - yes they were constant, but who is to say how they interacted?):
"Our subject GT, belonging to Jim Sell, already wore JBA headers and exhaust, along with underdrive pulleys, thus explaining its healthy baseline numbers."

b. The chart starts at 2500RPM - so the loss could perhaps be observed below (though I would agree - who cares?)

c. Gains of +/- 5-10HP on single dyno runs are imformative and interesting, but not exactly conclusive... You'd need more runs to "prove" this scientifically to get a result that was outside the "error band" of the measurement techinique...

Not saying they don't work - heck I don't have them anymore but pointing out that the example above is not really a conclusive experiment...

P.S. and FWIW to explain why ford would do this if it is a zero gain at the bottom - emissions and idle smoothing would give you an answer...

 

A lot of things to respond to here!

First off, yes, Brent @ Brenspeed DOES have tunes for CMCP delete. I am running his tune on my car.

I have only run two tanks of gas through my car after installing them. So far my mileage appears to have gone down by about .25 MPG, but that is well within the natural variance of my driving anyway, so I don't have anything conclusive to say there-- except that any effect it may have had (for good or for ill) is very small, if any. Once I get some more fillups done, I'll feel more confident one way or the other.

Cekim, I agree that the aforementioned dyno test isn't formally "correct" from a scientific point of view. The fact that I was noting is that of the several graphs that I have seen in the mags and on various web sites, NONE of them showed a power loss, and all of them showed a gain. Conclusive? No. But it is a very good sign--you might call it "circumstantial evidence". My point is this: I have heard a lot of people post and say that "CMCPs are a tradeoff", but I can't find anything to back up that position. On the other hand, there is at least something to support the claim that they are beneficial with no obvious drawbacks.

I am of the opinion that the CMCP system is intended to control emissions and possibly to improve mileage.

Whatever the case, on my car (mod list below) I am 100% happy with the mod. I felt no drops in power, and the engine is quite obviously stronger above 3500 RPM. I would not hesitate to recommend the mod to anyone.

 

Like I said I haven't notice a loss on the bottom end. It is entirely possible I have lost 2-5 hp under 2500 rpm without ever noticing it. I personally won't know for sure because I am not going to dyno my car anytime soon.

However, I look at it this way, since I too noticed that particular dyno starts at 2500 rpm. When I am making a run I launch between 2000-2500rpm which means I will be in that particular part of the power band for only a moment. So if there is a loss below 2500 rpm, it won't affect my run. The rest of the run I will be in the upper RPM ranges where there is a significant gain. Furthermore, the gains I have made from my CAI and tune (and UDPs in the future) have more than made up for any loss on the bottom as far as daily driving is concerned.

Finally, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am of the opinion the plates were primarily for emissions and gas mileage. Since I have noticed a slight decrease in gas mileage, but not a loss of low end power. Though I am open to the idea I lost 2-5 hp at the extreme bottom end, but if I have I don't feel it.

 

Yup, lots of whacky stuff over the years on car engines to that end...

I remember finding a valve on the driver's side (only) exhaust manifold when I first took my 85 apart...

Still scratching my head years later as to how there aren't a thousand better ways to heat up an engine than to put a stopper in one side of the exhaust[8D]

So, you do always have to keep emissions requirements in mind when trying to understand whacky parts you find in the engine - you also have to keep in mind that silly little things like this might make you fail inspections if you face a "sniffer"...

At $90-100 though this one would get my vote if for nothing else to remove moving parts from the system...