Maximum RPM?
11-26-2006, 09:54 PM
#21
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: GT Premi
Anybody know what the max RPM the 4.6 (3V or 2V) can handle before grenading?
Anybody know what the max RPM the 4.6 (3V or 2V) can handle before grenading?
Hi GT Premi,
If it's "that" sound you are after yourself some cams, bee hives and better retainers to go along with all the bolt-ons and large intake tract, 62mm T/B etc., long tubes with catted X-pipe and a straight through rear silencer like MagnaPack, Corsa or better yet S197GT spec Bassani Race mufflers. You will be about 400bhp and get the high pitched racing motor sound and agressive shriek to go with it but it will be LOUD all the time. I had a MagnaFlow Tru-X w/high flow cats and MagnaPack cat-back and the sound was glorious but too darned loud for a daily driver. The combination made an amazing shriek and mad power too but I couldn't deal with the noise levels so I went back to the stock rear mufflers which sort of killed the horse power party but actually sound pretty good when you get on them and are almost stock level quite around town below 2,500RPM and at freeway cruise speeds at anything below 80mph.
HTH
11-26-2006, 09:56 PM
#22
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Maximum RPM?
Hi GT Premi,
I forgot to ask you, why not just call Comp Cams and ask what they think is safe with the 127300 cams and matching beehives and retainers? If you get an answr out of them can you post what they say?
HTH
11-27-2006, 03:39 AM
#23
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 237
RE: Maximum RPM?
My dyno readout's proved that these 3v gt's make peak hp at 6000-6100 rpm's so i shift at 6400 which is 200-300rpms above horsepower peak. This gets me the best times at the track. I have evolution tunes and i think the rev limiter is set for 6800 but i've never bounced off it and don't intend to.
11-27-2006, 06:27 PM
#24
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: modular81
My dyno readout's proved that these 3v gt's make peak hp at 6000-6100 rpm's so i shift at 6400 which is 200-300rpms above horsepower peak. This gets me the best times at the track. I have evolution tunes and i think the rev limiter is set for 6800 but i've never bounced off it and don't intend to.
My dyno readout's proved that these 3v gt's make peak hp at 6000-6100 rpm's so i shift at 6400 which is 200-300rpms above horsepower peak. This gets me the best times at the track. I have evolution tunes and i think the rev limiter is set for 6800 but i've never bounced off it and don't intend to.
Hi modular81,
For maximum accelleration it does not matter where the engine's peak torque or horsepower is. What matters is the amount of power being delivered to the ground is.
Because the rear axle gear ratio always stays the same between shifts it affects all gears equally and is not a part of the delivered power calculation. You need to consider the transmission's torque multiplication to determine the best shift points for accelleration. All you have to do is map the engine power output against the transmission gear ratio at say 250RPM increments. Then you need to find the RPM at which the previous gear ratio's delivered power value falls behind the next gear ratio's delivered power value at the RPM the engine has dropped to after the shift is completed. For example in first gear if we shift at 6,800RPM with a power number of 709ft/lbs 2nd gear will engage at 4,000RPM and 570ft/lbs so it makes more sense to hold 1st gear as long as possible.
For a stock S197GT 3-valve motor (or a 3-valve motor with bolt-ons resulting in the same torque curve even if the numbers go up), with a stock TR3650 transmission and 3.55 gears you should always shift at whatever you call redline, 6,000-6,500RPM because the lower gear ratio will always deliver more power than the next higher gear. If you change your cams or other items that alter the torque curve you will need to recalculate the delivered power numbers.
HTH
11-28-2006, 09:09 AM
#25
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North East Texas on the Red River
Posts: 886
RE: Maximum RPM?
You will need much better rods. If you don't change rods and continue to run at high RPM you will get the chance to change the rods before too long, along with many other components.
11-28-2006, 07:01 PM
#26
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: MBDiagMan
You will need much better rods. If you don't change rods and continue to run at high RPM you will get the chance to change the rods before too long, along with many other components.
You will need much better rods. If you don't change rods and continue to run at high RPM you will get the chance to change the rods before too long, along with many other components.
Hi MBDiagMan,
On a N/A S197GT 3-valve motor the RPM limitation is valve float, not the rods. Of course you have little reason to rev much past 6,500RPM unless you have much better cams because the power curve is ruller flat from 5,100RPM to the revlimiter.
HTH
11-28-2006, 07:21 PM
#27
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 971
RE: Maximum RPM?
If the curve is flat from there to the redline, why not rev past 6500? A flat power curve is still good. If it drops off, then it's pointless to go higher. However, on topic, if I can get the "sound" with just intake and exhaust mods, that's all good, too.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
11-29-2006, 06:22 AM
#28
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: GT Premi
If the curve is flat from there to the redline, why not rev past 6500? A flat power curve is still good. If it drops off, then it's pointless to go higher. However, on topic, if I can get the "sound" with just intake and exhaust mods, that's all good, too.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
If the curve is flat from there to the redline, why not rev past 6500? A flat power curve is still good. If it drops off, then it's pointless to go higher. However, on topic, if I can get the "sound" with just intake and exhaust mods, that's all good, too.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
Hi GT Premi,
There is no reason not to hold the lower gear assuming that the motor will not grenade past 6,500RPM which is really bad for accelleration. Increased time in a lower gear is always an advantage to accelleration because when you shift you will generally be delivering less power to the wheels, hence by shifting your are reducing your rate of accelleration. Of course the motor will blow up at some point and/or the motor's power curve will at some point fall below the point where the motor will be able to deliver more power to the wheels by shifting to the next gear up. So to answer your question if the motor will go past the 6,500RPM and not blowup there is no reason not to keep going as long as the motor is still safe and the power delivered to the wheels does not result in a reduction in power to the wheels once the shift to the next gear is completed. Once you have exceeded that point in the power curve you are only going slower, not faster and you will just be losing time. As it works out, with the TR3650 gear ratios extending the upper RPM limit will improve accelleration and shorten times assuming a stock shaped power curve.
Long tubes help you make that bitching sound. JBA's long tubes are well above the frame rails, same as stock actually when installed with their catted H-pipe. If you are not draging your stock H-pipe now you will not be draging the JBA long tubes.
A common feature of the sound clips you favor the sound of are that tubular header shriek. If you can take the sound level and really want that sound what you want is a set of ceramic coated long tubes with smaller primaries 1 5/8", no larger, with 2 1/2" collectors with a 180 degree design feeding a pair of high-flow metalic substrate race cats run to a 2 1/2" X-Pipe with a crossover that does not cross at a sharp angle, you want the pipes to cross at as shallow an angle as possible and you want as long a crossover area as possible. If the SPL is too much you can also add a pair of long, small diameter race mufflers to take some of the edge out of the exhaust. Out back you want to use a straight through stinger type silencer. Corsas are the best, they allow that beautiful metalic ripping silk shriek to come through followed by MagnaPacks, PowerFlows (these are a bit quieter), and lastly Borla/FRPP stingers (mellower tone). Nut trust me. you won't be able to stand the sould pressure levels of this exhaust system and neither will the local cops when you are on it.
See wasn't that easy?
HTH
12-01-2006, 10:14 AM
#29
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 971
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Hi GT Premi,
If it's "that" sound you are after yourself some cams, bee hives and better retainers to go along with all the bolt-ons and large intake tract, 62mm T/B etc., long tubes with catted X-pipe and a straight through rear silencer like MagnaPack, Corsa or better yet S197GT spec Bassani Race mufflers. You will be about 400bhp and get the high pitched racing motor sound and agressive shriek to go with it but it will be LOUD all the time. I had a MagnaFlow Tru-X w/high flow cats and MagnaPack cat-back and the sound was glorious but too darned loud for a daily driver. The combination made an amazing shriek and mad power too but I couldn't deal with the noise levels so I went back to the stock rear mufflers which sort of killed the horse power party but actually sound pretty good when you get on them and are almost stock level quite around town below 2,500RPM and at freeway cruise speeds at anything below 80mph.
HTH
ORIGINAL: GT Premi
Anybody know what the max RPM the 4.6 (3V or 2V) can handle before grenading?
Anybody know what the max RPM the 4.6 (3V or 2V) can handle before grenading?
If it's "that" sound you are after yourself some cams, bee hives and better retainers to go along with all the bolt-ons and large intake tract, 62mm T/B etc., long tubes with catted X-pipe and a straight through rear silencer like MagnaPack, Corsa or better yet S197GT spec Bassani Race mufflers. You will be about 400bhp and get the high pitched racing motor sound and agressive shriek to go with it but it will be LOUD all the time. I had a MagnaFlow Tru-X w/high flow cats and MagnaPack cat-back and the sound was glorious but too darned loud for a daily driver. The combination made an amazing shriek and mad power too but I couldn't deal with the noise levels so I went back to the stock rear mufflers which sort of killed the horse power party but actually sound pretty good when you get on them and are almost stock level quite around town below 2,500RPM and at freeway cruise speeds at anything below 80mph.
HTH
I've been studying this exhaust sound for the past few days. I'm trying to pick out it's sonic signatures. First and foremost, I have to say that the 4th valve makes all the difference in the world for sound. It would be much easier, I think, to achieve it with a '99 - '04 4V Cobra. But anyway, I'm guessing I'd need some long tubes, an X-pipe, and a set of Corsas at the back. I'm thinking the tips should probably be down to maybe 2.5"; haven't quite nailed it down yet. A CAI would probably be a must, too. I've been listening to this A LOT trying to figure it out.
Anyway, here's some more for your listening pleasure:
Accelerating driveby
Driveby
In car and through tunnel
More inside car (love the plippity-plaps at the end of this one)
Low speed driveby I think this exhaust note is the most achievable for a Mustang. I hear similar all the time.
12-04-2006, 12:16 AM
#30
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
RE: Maximum RPM?
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Hi GT Premi,
There is no reason not to hold the lower gear assuming that the motor will not grenade past 6,500RPM which is really bad for accelleration. Increased time in a lower gear is always an advantage to accelleration because when you shift you will generally be delivering less power to the wheels, hence by shifting your are reducing your rate of accelleration. Of course the motor will blow up at some point and/or the motor's power curve will at some point fall below the point where the motor will be able to deliver more power to the wheels by shifting to the next gear up. So to answer your question if the motor will go past the 6,500RPM and not blowup there is no reason not to keep going as long as the motor is still safe and the power delivered to the wheels does not result in a reduction in power to the wheels once the shift to the next gear is completed. Once you have exceeded that point in the power curve you are only going slower, not faster and you will just be losing time. As it works out, with the TR3650 gear ratios extending the upper RPM limit will improve accelleration and shorten times assuming a stock shaped power curve.
Long tubes help you make that bitching sound. JBA's long tubes are well above the frame rails, same as stock actually when installed with their catted H-pipe. If you are not draging your stock H-pipe now you will not be draging the JBA long tubes.
A common feature of the sound clips you favor the sound of are that tubular header shriek. If you can take the sound level and really want that sound what you want is a set of ceramic coated long tubes with smaller primaries 1 5/8", no larger, with 2 1/2" collectors with a 180 degree design feeding a pair of high-flow metalic substrate race cats run to a 2 1/2" X-Pipe with a crossover that does not cross at a sharp angle, you want the pipes to cross at as shallow an angle as possible and you want as long a crossover area as possible. If the SPL is too much you can also add a pair of long, small diameter race mufflers to take some of the edge out of the exhaust. Out back you want to use a straight through stinger type silencer. Corsas are the best, they allow that beautiful metalic ripping silk shriek to come through followed by MagnaPacks, PowerFlows (these are a bit quieter), and lastly Borla/FRPP stingers (mellower tone). Nut trust me. you won't be able to stand the sould pressure levels of this exhaust system and neither will the local cops when you are on it.
See wasn't that easy?
HTH
ORIGINAL: GT Premi
If the curve is flat from there to the redline, why not rev past 6500? A flat power curve is still good. If it drops off, then it's pointless to go higher. However, on topic, if I can get the "sound" with just intake and exhaust mods, that's all good, too.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
If the curve is flat from there to the redline, why not rev past 6500? A flat power curve is still good. If it drops off, then it's pointless to go higher. However, on topic, if I can get the "sound" with just intake and exhaust mods, that's all good, too.
Another question (and I may make another topic for it depending on the feedback); I'm guessing I'd need long tubes. I don't really care for long tubes because every set I've ever seen on a car are dangling below the body line of the car. Does anybody make a set that will tuck up next to the body where it's supposed to and not be seen? My car's already lowered. The last thing I want is to have my exhaust system sparking on the ground from every little bump and undulation in the road.
Hi GT Premi,
There is no reason not to hold the lower gear assuming that the motor will not grenade past 6,500RPM which is really bad for accelleration. Increased time in a lower gear is always an advantage to accelleration because when you shift you will generally be delivering less power to the wheels, hence by shifting your are reducing your rate of accelleration. Of course the motor will blow up at some point and/or the motor's power curve will at some point fall below the point where the motor will be able to deliver more power to the wheels by shifting to the next gear up. So to answer your question if the motor will go past the 6,500RPM and not blowup there is no reason not to keep going as long as the motor is still safe and the power delivered to the wheels does not result in a reduction in power to the wheels once the shift to the next gear is completed. Once you have exceeded that point in the power curve you are only going slower, not faster and you will just be losing time. As it works out, with the TR3650 gear ratios extending the upper RPM limit will improve accelleration and shorten times assuming a stock shaped power curve.
Long tubes help you make that bitching sound. JBA's long tubes are well above the frame rails, same as stock actually when installed with their catted H-pipe. If you are not draging your stock H-pipe now you will not be draging the JBA long tubes.
A common feature of the sound clips you favor the sound of are that tubular header shriek. If you can take the sound level and really want that sound what you want is a set of ceramic coated long tubes with smaller primaries 1 5/8", no larger, with 2 1/2" collectors with a 180 degree design feeding a pair of high-flow metalic substrate race cats run to a 2 1/2" X-Pipe with a crossover that does not cross at a sharp angle, you want the pipes to cross at as shallow an angle as possible and you want as long a crossover area as possible. If the SPL is too much you can also add a pair of long, small diameter race mufflers to take some of the edge out of the exhaust. Out back you want to use a straight through stinger type silencer. Corsas are the best, they allow that beautiful metalic ripping silk shriek to come through followed by MagnaPacks, PowerFlows (these are a bit quieter), and lastly Borla/FRPP stingers (mellower tone). Nut trust me. you won't be able to stand the sould pressure levels of this exhaust system and neither will the local cops when you are on it.
See wasn't that easy?
HTH
Odd my car makes less hp in 3rd gear than it does in 4th gear. You have a point on the higher gear will put more accell to the ground but you also gotta take into consideration that 3v torque starts to die hard at 5k rpm and after 6k rpm it has dropped almost completely to being null. So even if you are pulling a higher ratio gear you are pulling at that gear with a crappy torque #. I have tested this on my friends dyno and we came to the conclusion that on my engine with all the bolt ons available it is best to shift before 6k rpm. I do have 3.55 in though and same thing with the nitrous runs. I usually shift at 6k flat and I raised my redline to 6.7 with my tuner after being told that the stock drive by wire system lowers engine output when u start to reach the rev limiter.
Att. Andrew