05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
12-04-2006, 09:59 PM
#22
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 184
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
Thanks for the update ebr, I know more than a few of us were interested to know what type power adder, lbs of boost, length of operation at that level and how hard you beat that pony
I have a friend that is running a ProCharger at 10 PSI and dyno'd at 443 RWHP and 375 RWTQ, so I'm a little surprised at your torque too. I have about 2500 miles on 10 lbs of Whipple boost - 460 RWHP and 433 RWTQ, running the Whipple canned tune and running pretty lean. Dyno operator felt there was another 20 -30 HP to come with some additional fuel. So, I have to believe that either I have one of the "good ones" or the tune - timing especially - is critical in these motor's life. I have heard that exceeding the factory rev limit with a FI motor is deadly on the S197 and Whipple keeps this at 6250 so that might be why I haven't had any problem yet, but like you, if it goes it will come back on "steroids"
I have a friend that is running a ProCharger at 10 PSI and dyno'd at 443 RWHP and 375 RWTQ, so I'm a little surprised at your torque too. I have about 2500 miles on 10 lbs of Whipple boost - 460 RWHP and 433 RWTQ, running the Whipple canned tune and running pretty lean. Dyno operator felt there was another 20 -30 HP to come with some additional fuel. So, I have to believe that either I have one of the "good ones" or the tune - timing especially - is critical in these motor's life. I have heard that exceeding the factory rev limit with a FI motor is deadly on the S197 and Whipple keeps this at 6250 so that might be why I haven't had any problem yet, but like you, if it goes it will come back on "steroids"
12-04-2006, 10:05 PM
#23
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bullard, Tx.
Posts: 533
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
Yeah I have to beleive that alot of my problem was that the car was not up to temp., it was 30deg., and I hit 6750 rpm.
This car has ran strong for a long time with no problems.
This car has ran strong for a long time with no problems.
12-04-2006, 10:15 PM
#24
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 184
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
Dude, I'd say that your motor was pretty strong if you beat on it like that & it lasted this long
6750 RPM is up there, specially on a motor not warmed up at that outside temp! Good luck on your rebuild & let us know how it progresses as I'm sure a few of us will be following in your steps 
6750 RPM is up there, specially on a motor not warmed up at that outside temp! Good luck on your rebuild & let us know how it progresses as I'm sure a few of us will be following in your steps
12-04-2006, 11:14 PM
#25
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bullard, Tx.
Posts: 533
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
In a hurry what can I say.Looking forward to the new stroker and maybe d series Procharger
I will keep ya posted. By the way this was my dyno report prior to the last posted .
This were I would stay with stock short block for anyone who wants to keep it together.
I will keep ya posted. By the way this was my dyno report prior to the last posted .
This were I would stay with stock short block for anyone who wants to keep it together.
12-05-2006, 01:32 AM
#27
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,225
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
Thanks for the info erb. That was what we were wanting to know.
Was pretty sure that if you were running centri that you were pushing more psi to get that kind of power than a TS would. But it wasn't really worth arguing more with Andrew over. He is apparently much wiser and more clarvioant than the rest of us lowlifes.
Was pretty sure that if you were running centri that you were pushing more psi to get that kind of power than a TS would. But it wasn't really worth arguing more with Andrew over. He is apparently much wiser and more clarvioant than the rest of us lowlifes.
12-05-2006, 06:24 PM
#28
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
500hp on an auto is indeed asking it. Hawgman nice sarcasm; TS/Roots make their power down lower on the revs, centrifugals make their hp/torque in the end. Now if it was a turbo that would had been a whole other 20 bucks but most of you know my stance in that by now haha^^. Also he could had been pushing close to 600rwhp if he had a Stick.
Also The tune is everything on these cars and a good tuner should be the most important investment you make in your car if you start modding imo. It is the one place you don't want to try to skimp on or DIY.
Timing is what gets the car really moving so that's where most novice tuners will turn up the heat to get good dyno numbers and it is just plain stupid. Once you start pushing 16degrees+ on pump gas, it is a recipe for disaster.
Octane is imporant with timing and many guys make the stupid mistake of thinking any race gas is good enough. Since most guys still have cats, they put in 102 octane and then think they are safe for 24+ of timing and then can't understand when the motor lets go. At those timing levels 24+ 102 doesn't cut it either and you want to be running 110+ octane at least. You have to run c16 for that. c16 is 118 octane.
So these are important facts you should discuss with your tuner. This is the reason why 99% custom tunes are 'race tunes' and 'street tunes'. It would be to expensive to run c16 on the street everyday so usualy a good tuner will give you a street tune with very little timing (<15degrees) to run on 91 or 93 which will make a lot less power with the lower timing level but will be safe. Then the 'race tune' will have your big power numbers with the extra timing for use on the good gas. Also remember that c16 has lead in it which in turn screws up your sensors, 102 octane doesn't have lead.
If your tuner looks at you weird when you discuss these timing and octane issues or tells you octane and timing aren't a big deal - then run with your wallet and engine intact.
Also The tune is everything on these cars and a good tuner should be the most important investment you make in your car if you start modding imo. It is the one place you don't want to try to skimp on or DIY.
Timing is what gets the car really moving so that's where most novice tuners will turn up the heat to get good dyno numbers and it is just plain stupid. Once you start pushing 16degrees+ on pump gas, it is a recipe for disaster.
Octane is imporant with timing and many guys make the stupid mistake of thinking any race gas is good enough. Since most guys still have cats, they put in 102 octane and then think they are safe for 24+ of timing and then can't understand when the motor lets go. At those timing levels 24+ 102 doesn't cut it either and you want to be running 110+ octane at least. You have to run c16 for that. c16 is 118 octane.
So these are important facts you should discuss with your tuner. This is the reason why 99% custom tunes are 'race tunes' and 'street tunes'. It would be to expensive to run c16 on the street everyday so usualy a good tuner will give you a street tune with very little timing (<15degrees) to run on 91 or 93 which will make a lot less power with the lower timing level but will be safe. Then the 'race tune' will have your big power numbers with the extra timing for use on the good gas. Also remember that c16 has lead in it which in turn screws up your sensors, 102 octane doesn't have lead.
If your tuner looks at you weird when you discuss these timing and octane issues or tells you octane and timing aren't a big deal - then run with your wallet and engine intact.
12-06-2006, 09:02 AM
#29
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North East Texas on the Red River
Posts: 886
RE: 05 4.6 Broke rod, hole in block
ORIGINAL: zcat
Dude, I'd say that your motor was pretty strong if you beat on it like that & it lasted this long 6750 RPM is up there, specially on a motor not warmed up at that outside temp! Good luck on your rebuild & let us know how it progresses as I'm sure a few of us will be following in your steps
Dude, I'd say that your motor was pretty strong if you beat on it like that & it lasted this long
6750 RPM is up there, specially on a motor not warmed up at that outside temp! Good luck on your rebuild & let us know how it progresses as I'm sure a few of us will be following in your steps
It really says something for an engine to produce twice the power it was designed for and running at RPM WAAaay over the design limit that it held up as it did.
I would LOVE to see some failure pictures. I would be willing to bet BEFORE seeing that pictures that the cause was a broken rod. It is HIGHLY likely that if the engine would have received a set of forged rods before all this modification and high RPM driving that it would still be together.
Build an engine with a good set of forged rods and you will be good to go.
