Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
03-08-2007, 10:06 PM
#1
I ♥ Acer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,527
Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
Haven't been around much lately and just going through the ringer with my car. Over a year of building, testing, learning, and downright breaking crap and finally at the end of the road...
My quest started for a 9 sec DD and boy did I bite off more than I thought...lol
In my humble experience, I can tell you now that 80% of the aftermarket world for the S197's are FOS IMO. We read about how Burcham did this, JDM did that, Powerhouse did this, PSI did that, etc, etc... They all want you to belive you can buy their products and have the same results and have your stock motor intact. It's a bunch of BS. The truth is darn near every company out there has a very CUSTOM set-up to get their results and in no way reflects the 'kits' they are selling. The vendors you here about running these awesome ET's and making 500+ rwhp on the stock motor are only one sided and not realistic. You never hear about how many times they broke stuff or rebuilt stuff or how many miles the car is actually driven other than down the track. It is easy when you are a pro shop or company to simply replace and rebuild everytime you break and highlight the fluke accomplishments you make in the process. We consumers don't have that luxury. I have been on forums, at the tracks, and have dealt with a lot of people over the past couple years and have come to a sad realization.
The simple truth is there are maybe a half dozen actual sub 10 S197's and not a single one of them are anything but completely built custom set-ups. Not a sole person is making the 'fast' et's on any standard kit or part, or combination of standard parts out there. Even those guys in the 10's are completely custom and unique shop built cars so if you think you're going to wow the track with any combination of bolt ons - forget it.
I am proud of what ST Motorsports has accomplished for me but it took heck to get there. 2 rebuilt motors, a vortech, a PH turbo kit, a POS set of JDM heads, countless tranny issues, and custom N20 set-up. All have been scrapped in search of the 'best' combination. I have lot's of cosmetic mods and my beast ways in at a whopping 4K pounds with me in it. I have now weight shaving mods at all and full interior/air with factory seats & glass. I had taken the vortech as far as it could go (the 18 psi range) and couldn't keep a blet/tensioner on the car to save my life at those levels. The PH turbo kit was nice as is but ran out of gas at 16 psi and wasn't effeicent at all for anything over 600 rwhp. I switched to a 76mm version of the PH kit and found it was set-up poorly. It had the trim size suitable for a big block and took literally forever to spool and drove intake temps through the roof. My trans temps went ridiculous cause I had to stand on the brake for 6 seconds to build boost.
After getting some turbo experts invloved, I was able to piece together a great 76mm system using turbonetics and precision parts and get the 'best of both worlds'. The turbo now has the full power of the 76mm but spools like a 62mm instantly by 2800 rpm. The Art Carr 4 speed AOD was a joke for the S197 and every single person who bought one had to have them rebuilt elsewhere which equated to a lot of down time and money for everyone who had one. After dialing in a great TC and rebuilding the trans, it finally came together to work as a perfect street/strip car as I have all the love of a C4 with that wonderful OD on the freeway. With all the benefits of the C4, I can still cruise at 80 at 3000 rpm with 4.10 gears on a monster. Try that on a C4, but the cost was high as it took literally months to get it to work right. After getting ripped off by JDM Engineering and darn near coming to blows with ST Motorsports, I was tempted many times to throw in the towel. I have to thank Adam at ST Motorsports sincerely. Since he has been the builder of my car, it was him who received the brunt of my frustration and anger whenever there was a problem and I have had MANY problems, so you can imagine how much crap he has put up with from me. Despite this, he never turned me away, and always went above and beyond on my car even when I might not have deserved it. For this, I am forever thankful to ST Motorsports.
I am not going to waste bandwidth with dyno numbers or bench racing. I'll be at LACR next wednesday and Irwindale next thrusday and I'll post some vids to speak for themselves. ST has worked very hard to accomplish my ridiculous goal which is to be able to hang with the big boys in a REAL DD. This car is an honest and true DD weighing 4K pounds and should hang with the fastest out there who have nothing but trailored shop cars. I've always wanted from the beginning to show what an average joe like me could do without a big shop backing them and I'm finally there but just wanted to keep it real with everyone and say that in the long run, IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Unless you have a big shop backing you and footing the bill, be VERY SATISFIED with your car if you can get her into the 11's realiably.
We all know how addicting the mod bug is once it bites you and I strongly encourage all from my failures to set a definitve goal and STICK TO IT. It is very difficult to do and I know but it will save you tons in the end. We all 'always want to go faster' but if you set a reasonable goal and stick to it, and stay there when you hit it, you'll be much happier in the long run IMO.
Good luck to all in your quest and mission to make your stang something beyond what's on every lot in america, and koodos to all pushing the envelope and keeping things real for us. The mustang community is a bizarre and wonderful mix of gearheads sharing a unique bond and thirst for knowledge. I do not know if it's loyalty is matched with any other make of vehicle.
In closing, I just want to say there are some REALLY GOOD vendors out there too and though they are few and far between IMO, they make this whole community worth while.
Peace!!
My quest started for a 9 sec DD and boy did I bite off more than I thought...lol
In my humble experience, I can tell you now that 80% of the aftermarket world for the S197's are FOS IMO. We read about how Burcham did this, JDM did that, Powerhouse did this, PSI did that, etc, etc... They all want you to belive you can buy their products and have the same results and have your stock motor intact. It's a bunch of BS. The truth is darn near every company out there has a very CUSTOM set-up to get their results and in no way reflects the 'kits' they are selling. The vendors you here about running these awesome ET's and making 500+ rwhp on the stock motor are only one sided and not realistic. You never hear about how many times they broke stuff or rebuilt stuff or how many miles the car is actually driven other than down the track. It is easy when you are a pro shop or company to simply replace and rebuild everytime you break and highlight the fluke accomplishments you make in the process. We consumers don't have that luxury. I have been on forums, at the tracks, and have dealt with a lot of people over the past couple years and have come to a sad realization.
The simple truth is there are maybe a half dozen actual sub 10 S197's and not a single one of them are anything but completely built custom set-ups. Not a sole person is making the 'fast' et's on any standard kit or part, or combination of standard parts out there. Even those guys in the 10's are completely custom and unique shop built cars so if you think you're going to wow the track with any combination of bolt ons - forget it.
I am proud of what ST Motorsports has accomplished for me but it took heck to get there. 2 rebuilt motors, a vortech, a PH turbo kit, a POS set of JDM heads, countless tranny issues, and custom N20 set-up. All have been scrapped in search of the 'best' combination. I have lot's of cosmetic mods and my beast ways in at a whopping 4K pounds with me in it. I have now weight shaving mods at all and full interior/air with factory seats & glass. I had taken the vortech as far as it could go (the 18 psi range) and couldn't keep a blet/tensioner on the car to save my life at those levels. The PH turbo kit was nice as is but ran out of gas at 16 psi and wasn't effeicent at all for anything over 600 rwhp. I switched to a 76mm version of the PH kit and found it was set-up poorly. It had the trim size suitable for a big block and took literally forever to spool and drove intake temps through the roof. My trans temps went ridiculous cause I had to stand on the brake for 6 seconds to build boost.
After getting some turbo experts invloved, I was able to piece together a great 76mm system using turbonetics and precision parts and get the 'best of both worlds'. The turbo now has the full power of the 76mm but spools like a 62mm instantly by 2800 rpm. The Art Carr 4 speed AOD was a joke for the S197 and every single person who bought one had to have them rebuilt elsewhere which equated to a lot of down time and money for everyone who had one. After dialing in a great TC and rebuilding the trans, it finally came together to work as a perfect street/strip car as I have all the love of a C4 with that wonderful OD on the freeway. With all the benefits of the C4, I can still cruise at 80 at 3000 rpm with 4.10 gears on a monster. Try that on a C4, but the cost was high as it took literally months to get it to work right. After getting ripped off by JDM Engineering and darn near coming to blows with ST Motorsports, I was tempted many times to throw in the towel. I have to thank Adam at ST Motorsports sincerely. Since he has been the builder of my car, it was him who received the brunt of my frustration and anger whenever there was a problem and I have had MANY problems, so you can imagine how much crap he has put up with from me. Despite this, he never turned me away, and always went above and beyond on my car even when I might not have deserved it. For this, I am forever thankful to ST Motorsports.
I am not going to waste bandwidth with dyno numbers or bench racing. I'll be at LACR next wednesday and Irwindale next thrusday and I'll post some vids to speak for themselves. ST has worked very hard to accomplish my ridiculous goal which is to be able to hang with the big boys in a REAL DD. This car is an honest and true DD weighing 4K pounds and should hang with the fastest out there who have nothing but trailored shop cars. I've always wanted from the beginning to show what an average joe like me could do without a big shop backing them and I'm finally there but just wanted to keep it real with everyone and say that in the long run, IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Unless you have a big shop backing you and footing the bill, be VERY SATISFIED with your car if you can get her into the 11's realiably.
We all know how addicting the mod bug is once it bites you and I strongly encourage all from my failures to set a definitve goal and STICK TO IT. It is very difficult to do and I know but it will save you tons in the end. We all 'always want to go faster' but if you set a reasonable goal and stick to it, and stay there when you hit it, you'll be much happier in the long run IMO.
Good luck to all in your quest and mission to make your stang something beyond what's on every lot in america, and koodos to all pushing the envelope and keeping things real for us. The mustang community is a bizarre and wonderful mix of gearheads sharing a unique bond and thirst for knowledge. I do not know if it's loyalty is matched with any other make of vehicle.
In closing, I just want to say there are some REALLY GOOD vendors out there too and though they are few and far between IMO, they make this whole community worth while.
Peace!!
03-08-2007, 10:25 PM
#3
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
RE: Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
I remember when you were on her under another name (shhhhh.,,) Great to hear everything has finally came togather. You are 100% right about bs claims from certain vendors, I feel for the people who fall for there crap.There are good ones out there. i think hearing from your mistakes has helped me and saved me money...I am in the process of putting a hellion turbo system. The building a motor over the next couple of months and upgrading everything else. Anyway, I have a goal and plan on sticking to it, dyno numbers etc mean nothing, but I want a mid 11 car DD low mainteance car, that looks good. Congrats and dont even want to know how much you have put in there.....
Oh one thing, your not an average Joe, true you dont have a big shop putting up the dough, but you are far from average as most would go backrupt doing all the work you have.
... again congrats and when you were under another name (as well as I ) you helped me make right choices.
Oh one thing, your not an average Joe, true you dont have a big shop putting up the dough, but you are far from average as most would go backrupt doing all the work you have.
... again congrats and when you were under another name (as well as I ) you helped me make right choices.
03-08-2007, 10:43 PM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,541
RE: Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
Just goes to show when you make power you will break things. Thats why most of my philosophy is on suspension and drivetrain early onto make it to the 11s. While I have NO delusions ofrunning 11swithout some sort of FI, hopefully by time I add my power adder of choice I will have a good foundation to make those kinda runs. 10 and 9 sec cars are maintenace queens and it reqs a lot more attention to detail than most people realize.
03-08-2007, 11:38 PM
#8
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,333
RE: Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
wow, good write up. congratulations on finally getting a setup that works for you; you are one of the few people who have perservered and built the car of their dreams, and taken the time and effort to do it right.
can we have some pics of the beast pleaseeee?
can we have some pics of the beast pleaseeee?
03-09-2007, 12:02 AM
#10
I ♥ Acer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,527
RE: Before you build, set a GOAL and stick to it!
Thanks guys. I will post vids and pics next week from the track. I was just hoping to help curb the 'mod bug' in others from not biting as hard as it bit me...[8D]
I really wish in retrospect I had set a a solid mid 11 goal and kept to it. Hoping others don't get sucked in also.
I really wish in retrospect I had set a a solid mid 11 goal and kept to it. Hoping others don't get sucked in also.