bl1nk

So these O2 sensors that tell the PCU whether the car is running lean or rich and adapt the A/F accordingly... are these the same O2 sensors that get deleted/turned off with MIL eliminators when you go with an O/R pipe? If so, what happens to the computers ability to adapt your tune then?

And I have browsed through my SCT 2 many times and never seen an adaptive learning option. Personally I think they put adaptive learning in there simply for emissions and gas mileage reasons. Id rather have it turned off since I really dont give a squat about either of those.

Also, has anyone bothered to ask SCT or a tuner about this "Torque management" deal? Whether it really exists or not?

GT John

+1

modular81

No, only the rear o2 sensors are turned off when going to o/r midpipes. The front o2's are always on to monitor closed loop air/fuel and give feedback to the pcm.

Doug904

That is correct, only the rear 02 sensors are disabled when thetune is made for Off-road pipes to turn off the MIL.

The adaptive learning truly has NOTHING to do with the WOT feel or Open loop operation of the car with a tune, or well most tunes. As described above most good tuners will turn off the ability of the car to apply learned a/f corrections to the WOT tables, now it will do this with the stock file.Still, this isn't the adaptive feature you are looking for.

There are a few values in the automatic that can cause it to learn how to shift softly, there is Torque Management on ALL new Mustang's and even early ones. This should be disabled in EVERY tune made, this isn't a value that can be selected from either Diablo or SCT's user options though. Nor can adaptive learning from the User options. This is something that has to be done in the custom tuning software.

Adaptive learning can be turned off but this will then limit the amount of learning the car can do for different situations. This can be a bad thing if you are going from different altitudes or even different climates. The car must have some sort of learning to be able to adjust for different conditions. Still this shouldn't make a huge power difference in that while in closed loop, or learning mode, it is trying to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can. This is where fuel trims come into play, they tell the tale of how much correction the PCM is making to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can by using the readings from the front 02 sensors. Normally +/- 5% is well within Ford factory specs. When these get to a point where it cannot adjust anymore then this is where you get the P015X or p017X code telling you the system is lean or rich. In other words the PCM has done as much correcting as possible and it cannot do it anymore. You have an issue is what its trying to say.

So, in short, truly there isn't a parameter that will turn your engines learning ability off completely, truly you dont want that anyway. I think that its something in the new Drive by wire system that is making the adjustment to the total amount of torque that the engine is allowed to make, this is how the DBW system works anyway, by commanding a set amount of torque by the pedal position. Its when the amount of torque is more or less then it should be is when you get the fail safe mode. The way some tuners can adjust these settings and still keep it within factory parameters is where you will gain the most and keep the most driveability. Turning the Torque Management off is a good start but having a tuner that knows whats going on is the best way to get the most from the car.

howarmat

Welcome to the forums Doug! I cant wait for you to share your wisdom over here.

richmod

Even though I now know much more about DBW, tunes, etc,. and I do truly appreciate the detailed responses,I am still unclear - can a tune fade with time? It sounds like Doug is saying that there will always be SOME adaptive learning. Does that level of adaptive learning cause the original intent of a tune (torque, throttle response) to diminish somewhat with time?

howarmat

If the adaptive learning is shut off your tune will not "fade". If not shut off the computer will still "learn" things and the the tune might loose some of its effectiveness is my understanding from what Doug has shared.

richmod

This is where I'm confused. Is it:

- Adaptive learning can be turned off but it's not a good idea to do that OR
- Adaptive learning can't really be totally turned off.

There's a big difference. One means you can request that adaptive learning be totally turned off in your tune to eliminate the possiblity of tune "fade" (despite the warnings that it might not be a good idea), and the other means since it can't be totally turned off, some amount of tune fade is possible. Or maybe it doesn't mean any of that and I'm just a moron.

I realize this is complicated stuff that may not be easily explained. And ultimately, it aint gonna stop me from buying a tune. But it's fun learning about it anyway.

MikesTorchedGT

so long story short should we reload our tunes or not?

Chef

if i drive at high RPMs (lol) , the car wants to go fast after starting up the morning after. if around town, the car seems less poised to jump. i no expert but can feel the computers short term memory. no need to re-load just drive high rpms with traction control off and the machine remembers that daddy doesnt care about gas mileage