A few noob ?'s re: mods
05-08-2008, 07:49 AM
#1
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 76
A few noob ?'s re: mods
Ok, more than a few...I'm just trying to avoid my general proclivity to doing the wrong thing first; usually the *expensive* wrong thing. 
Just picked up a new 2008 Mustang GT 5-speed and after surfing around for a bit, like I need some insight to avoid past mistakes.
As far as background, my current experience w/ computer controlled cars is with our 2004 Corvette. We’ve done the long tube headers, cold air intake thing and when it came time for PCM recalibration, we went with a full dyno tune on a load bearing Mustang dyno. This was done w/ HP Tuners and involved re-mapping fuel and timing tables, torque management reductions, cooling fan adjustments, etc., the ‘full deal.’ I don’t pretend to know the intricacies of this process but I mention it here as, from what I’ve read, tuning the 05+ Mustang platforms seems mostly done by handheld tuners (SCT, Diablo, etc.) which, in the Corvette world, are viewed as less than optimal when compared with custom dyno tuning.
With that in mind, I’m probably gonna limit the Mustang mods (yeah, I know…I say this now) to:
Definitely (also known as “immediately”):
1. C & L Intake w/ some kinda tune
2. Bassani aft-cat exhaust (#46075, already installed; stock exhaust lasted a whole 300 miles)
Possibly (also known as “don’t know if it’s worth it”):
1. Under drive pulleys
2. Bassani Power-X Crossover w/ hi-flo cats
Very remote possibility (also known as “don’t know if it’s worth it ‘cuz this stuff is getting expensive”):
1. American Racing LT headers w/ hi-flo cats.
I have some questions re: the above items I was hoping you could provide some insight on.
1. C & L Intake w/ some kinda tune
* Are people shipping the SCT X-Cal 3 w/ CAI packages? It seems to have some good added features over the previous version, most important to me is enhanced logging and more memory. We use EFI Live to do data logging on the Vette and I really find that ability useful.
* Is a ‘handheld’ tune sufficient for these limited mods, even if I end up doing the pulleys and Power-X crossover sooner rather than later? Or, would it be worthwhile to actually go to a shop and have a true dyno tune done? Is there even software to tune this platform to the extent that they can in the HP Tuners/EFI-Live type environments for other platforms (i.e. LS-series GM platforms? I would, however, enjoy the ability the handheld would provide to re-load stock tune, do data logging
2. Under drive pulleys
* Are pulleys worth doing, do they really add enough power/throttle response to justify expense (albeit they are not that pricey)? Or are they just one of those generally accepted ‘things’ done to this platform that are dubious w/ regard to actual results (trust me, they are enough of these types of things filling Corvette catalogs that one must remain suspicious).
* Additionally, are there any disadvantages/downsides to changing the rate at which the accessories are driven (longevity, reliability, etc.)
3. Bassani Power-X Crossover w/ hi-flo cats:
* Obviously the cats will flow better, but I’m guessing it doesn’t free up that much power. Is this a worthwhile addition for anything other than sound considerations?
4. American Racing LT headers w/ hi-flo cats:
* Are LT headers a worthwhile addition on this platform. The 32” primary headers w/ merge collectors (LG Motorsports Pros) really woke up the Vette, not so much in peak HP but rather in the more usable and entertaining torque characteristics ‘under the curve’. I’ve read varying opinions on whether or not LT headers are a decent cost vs. performance proposition on the 4.6 3V.
Sorry for the long, rambling message; just trying to avoid some of the expensive mistakes I made w/ the Corvette (i.e. it took me 3 filters/CAI strategies to get the right one and if I had to do it again I’d go with American Racing headers as opposed to the LG Pro’s).
In the end, I’m just looking for a fun, responsive Mustang GT that I’ll take down the 1/4 mile every once in a while, durable and reliable without risking too much w/ regards to killing the warranty. I’m guessing the whole 1/4 performance issue will end up being a question of traction anyway so "ultimate" power isn’t my primary goal, daily entertainment is.
Lemme know what you think…thanks.
Just picked up a new 2008 Mustang GT 5-speed and after surfing around for a bit, like I need some insight to avoid past mistakes.
As far as background, my current experience w/ computer controlled cars is with our 2004 Corvette. We’ve done the long tube headers, cold air intake thing and when it came time for PCM recalibration, we went with a full dyno tune on a load bearing Mustang dyno. This was done w/ HP Tuners and involved re-mapping fuel and timing tables, torque management reductions, cooling fan adjustments, etc., the ‘full deal.’ I don’t pretend to know the intricacies of this process but I mention it here as, from what I’ve read, tuning the 05+ Mustang platforms seems mostly done by handheld tuners (SCT, Diablo, etc.) which, in the Corvette world, are viewed as less than optimal when compared with custom dyno tuning.
With that in mind, I’m probably gonna limit the Mustang mods (yeah, I know…I say this now) to:
Definitely (also known as “immediately”):
1. C & L Intake w/ some kinda tune
2. Bassani aft-cat exhaust (#46075, already installed; stock exhaust lasted a whole 300 miles)
Possibly (also known as “don’t know if it’s worth it”):
1. Under drive pulleys
2. Bassani Power-X Crossover w/ hi-flo cats
Very remote possibility (also known as “don’t know if it’s worth it ‘cuz this stuff is getting expensive”):
1. American Racing LT headers w/ hi-flo cats.
I have some questions re: the above items I was hoping you could provide some insight on.
1. C & L Intake w/ some kinda tune
* Are people shipping the SCT X-Cal 3 w/ CAI packages? It seems to have some good added features over the previous version, most important to me is enhanced logging and more memory. We use EFI Live to do data logging on the Vette and I really find that ability useful.
* Is a ‘handheld’ tune sufficient for these limited mods, even if I end up doing the pulleys and Power-X crossover sooner rather than later? Or, would it be worthwhile to actually go to a shop and have a true dyno tune done? Is there even software to tune this platform to the extent that they can in the HP Tuners/EFI-Live type environments for other platforms (i.e. LS-series GM platforms? I would, however, enjoy the ability the handheld would provide to re-load stock tune, do data logging
2. Under drive pulleys
* Are pulleys worth doing, do they really add enough power/throttle response to justify expense (albeit they are not that pricey)? Or are they just one of those generally accepted ‘things’ done to this platform that are dubious w/ regard to actual results (trust me, they are enough of these types of things filling Corvette catalogs that one must remain suspicious).
* Additionally, are there any disadvantages/downsides to changing the rate at which the accessories are driven (longevity, reliability, etc.)
3. Bassani Power-X Crossover w/ hi-flo cats:
* Obviously the cats will flow better, but I’m guessing it doesn’t free up that much power. Is this a worthwhile addition for anything other than sound considerations?
4. American Racing LT headers w/ hi-flo cats:
* Are LT headers a worthwhile addition on this platform. The 32” primary headers w/ merge collectors (LG Motorsports Pros) really woke up the Vette, not so much in peak HP but rather in the more usable and entertaining torque characteristics ‘under the curve’. I’ve read varying opinions on whether or not LT headers are a decent cost vs. performance proposition on the 4.6 3V.
Sorry for the long, rambling message; just trying to avoid some of the expensive mistakes I made w/ the Corvette (i.e. it took me 3 filters/CAI strategies to get the right one and if I had to do it again I’d go with American Racing headers as opposed to the LG Pro’s).
In the end, I’m just looking for a fun, responsive Mustang GT that I’ll take down the 1/4 mile every once in a while, durable and reliable without risking too much w/ regards to killing the warranty. I’m guessing the whole 1/4 performance issue will end up being a question of traction anyway so "ultimate" power isn’t my primary goal, daily entertainment is.
Lemme know what you think…thanks.
05-08-2008, 12:42 PM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pa
Posts: 763
RE: A few noob ?'s re: mods
Welcome to the club! Sounds like you did some research before asking around and thats always a great place to start!
Coupe of things... HP Tuners now supports the 05+ mustangs..so whoever you trusted your vette to, you can trust your pony to. I will say this.. Having tuned dozens of GMs with the HPTuners software, there is one heckuva learning curve with the Fords. It's very different (and more advanced)than the GMs setup, but once you get it figured out the results are far and away better! It may even be worth your while at this point to invest in an HP Tuners setup of your own. If you do, give me a PM or an Email and I will do what I can to help you get started.
The thing your seeing with the handhelds is that they are simply a tool that these guys are using to load tunes written on MUCH more powerful software (i,e, the SCT racer package, Whatever the heck Diablo calls their stuff, etc..). So it's not that the guys are tuning with the hand helds, they are just using them to load the mail order tunes. You are correct about them being less than optimal... I know I am putting on a flame suit here, but a mail order tune is a "best guess" for your mods and will never equal a dyno tune.. that being said, some of these guys' "best guesses" are pretty dog-gone good.
UDP's, for the $$$ they cost are a decent improvement. Car will rev a little bit faster and there is a small power increase. The thing I saw that shocked me was a solid.8 mpg improvement on my highway mileage (and yes, I am **** about tracking my gas mileage for work purposes). I've not had any issues with charging, AC taking longer to cool off, and my engine runs exactly the same temp when I data log now as it did before the pulley's.
HIghflow cats are always a solid option for more power. Keep in mind that in these cars, the most restrictive things in the exhaust are the Cats and the manifolds.. and the manifolds are not that terrible. Highflow cats are good for a solid 10 hp or so at the tires, depending on the rest of the exhaust setup. My next move after that would be the headers.. shorties for good low end power or Long tubes for more high end.
I run shorties on my car, while a good friend with an equally modded car runs Long tubes, and the difference between our cars is back and forth.. he can't stay with me on the low end, and he pulls away on the big end.
As for the X pipe... If your looking to keep your power down low, I would recommend staying with an H. The X will give you better overall flow for more high end power, but the H will help low end exhaust scavenging more and help with torque production.
Coupe of things... HP Tuners now supports the 05+ mustangs..so whoever you trusted your vette to, you can trust your pony to. I will say this.. Having tuned dozens of GMs with the HPTuners software, there is one heckuva learning curve with the Fords. It's very different (and more advanced)than the GMs setup, but once you get it figured out the results are far and away better! It may even be worth your while at this point to invest in an HP Tuners setup of your own. If you do, give me a PM or an Email and I will do what I can to help you get started.
The thing your seeing with the handhelds is that they are simply a tool that these guys are using to load tunes written on MUCH more powerful software (i,e, the SCT racer package, Whatever the heck Diablo calls their stuff, etc..). So it's not that the guys are tuning with the hand helds, they are just using them to load the mail order tunes. You are correct about them being less than optimal... I know I am putting on a flame suit here, but a mail order tune is a "best guess" for your mods and will never equal a dyno tune.. that being said, some of these guys' "best guesses" are pretty dog-gone good.
UDP's, for the $$$ they cost are a decent improvement. Car will rev a little bit faster and there is a small power increase. The thing I saw that shocked me was a solid.8 mpg improvement on my highway mileage (and yes, I am **** about tracking my gas mileage for work purposes). I've not had any issues with charging, AC taking longer to cool off, and my engine runs exactly the same temp when I data log now as it did before the pulley's.
HIghflow cats are always a solid option for more power. Keep in mind that in these cars, the most restrictive things in the exhaust are the Cats and the manifolds.. and the manifolds are not that terrible. Highflow cats are good for a solid 10 hp or so at the tires, depending on the rest of the exhaust setup. My next move after that would be the headers.. shorties for good low end power or Long tubes for more high end.
I run shorties on my car, while a good friend with an equally modded car runs Long tubes, and the difference between our cars is back and forth.. he can't stay with me on the low end, and he pulls away on the big end.
As for the X pipe... If your looking to keep your power down low, I would recommend staying with an H. The X will give you better overall flow for more high end power, but the H will help low end exhaust scavenging more and help with torque production.
05-08-2008, 01:44 PM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
RE: A few noob ?'s re: mods
I would assume that the factory tune in a corvette is more performance oriented and tuned for premium fuel, so would probably need a dyno tune to see decent results. The mustangs are tuned for 87 octane and you will notice a big difference with any of the mail order tunes from brenspeed.com or B@m@chips.com. Those are two of the most popular tuners for the new mustangs.
Of course a dyno tune will always produce more power, but i've seen some only gain a few horses.
Of course a dyno tune will always produce more power, but i've seen some only gain a few horses.
05-08-2008, 02:46 PM
#5
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 500
RE: A few noob ?'s re: mods
+1 on the tunes
The L/T are worth it. I think I goth more jump from the headers then I did from CAI/tune.
I would add another Definitely mod Gears. It is the next thing on my list and everyone here swears by them.
The L/T are worth it. I think I goth more jump from the headers then I did from CAI/tune.
I would add another Definitely mod Gears. It is the next thing on my list and everyone here swears by them.
05-08-2008, 05:32 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 212
RE: A few noob ?'s re: mods
I've gotten gears and a tune now, bout to get full exhaust (LT headers, O/R Prochamber, Boomtubes) and will tell yah what I think once I get those.
I have to say, comparing tune to gears...Tune is cheaper and I think did a LOT more than gears. I'd go with Tune & CAI first. I don't even have a CAI and I ****in' love it!!!
I heard UDP are pretty good bang for the buck...but could be just a waste of money if you plan on going FI.
I have to say, comparing tune to gears...Tune is cheaper and I think did a LOT more than gears. I'd go with Tune & CAI first. I don't even have a CAI and I ****in' love it!!!
I heard UDP are pretty good bang for the buck...but could be just a waste of money if you plan on going FI.
05-09-2008, 02:30 PM
#7
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Palm Beach to South Carolina
Posts: 1,567
RE: A few noob ?'s re: mods
I did the Steeda mods in my sig shortly after getting my 08 GT. I noticed a big difference in the way the car felt. It pulls harder and spins up quicker due to the reduced rotational mass in the driveshaft the reduction of accessory drag from the UDPs (the driveline clunkiness is gone too!).
I waited on a CAI/tune because I wanted to see what the new Steeda adaptive tune was all about. Since I wasn't impressed with it, I have placed an order with Brenspeed for a Steeda CAI with high flow elbow and their three tunes - can't wait to see the results from this mod!
I waited on a CAI/tune because I wanted to see what the new Steeda adaptive tune was all about. Since I wasn't impressed with it, I have placed an order with Brenspeed for a Steeda CAI with high flow elbow and their three tunes - can't wait to see the results from this mod!
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