351/460
03-25-2008, 02:00 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: jersey
Posts: 287
RE: 351/460
Yeah my buddy told me to stroke it from a 351c to a 408 as well! I believe it was 408, 4 something. Thanks a lot I really didn't think this thread would get all these hits. I know I pretty much have to change every part right? New alternator, water pump, fuel pump, trans, etc. My buddy said he could get us to rig some parts to work.
03-25-2008, 02:10 PM
#13
Mach I Section Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: round abouts these parts
Posts: 7,140
RE: 351/460
No No dont rig it. You need to change the K member to the 5.0 k member or use a motor plate (they look clean!) but yes you'll need a new alt, water pump, fuel pump, and a trans, but youcan get a built 5spd or auto for the 351 fairly cheap. you can make over 500rwhp out of a properly set up 408 stroker....
BTW the cleveland engines are regaining their popularity!
BTW the cleveland engines are regaining their popularity!
03-25-2008, 03:03 PM
#14
Sith Lord/Site Mod
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IA
Posts: 5,036
RE: 351/460
I'm sure pounder will probably correct me, but if you're going to do that kind of a swap, why not check with some specialty shops and see if you can get ahold of a 427 side oiler? 
Might be a pretty penny for the block, but for carbuerated engines, in my opinion it's one of the best engine's ford ever made. THAT would be kick *** though, an 03 Mach with a 427 under the hood.. hehe.. just the thought of it gives me a chubby..
Might be a pretty penny for the block, but for carbuerated engines, in my opinion it's one of the best engine's ford ever made. THAT would be kick *** though, an 03 Mach with a 427 under the hood.. hehe.. just the thought of it gives me a chubby..
ORIGINAL: ponyponer
I know I pretty much have to change every part right? New alternator, water pump, fuel pump, trans, etc. My buddy said he could get us to rig some parts to work.
I know I pretty much have to change every part right? New alternator, water pump, fuel pump, trans, etc. My buddy said he could get us to rig some parts to work.
you're asking the right questions which are the wrong questions. Stay with me here; if you shoehorn a 460 into this car, there's not a single major component that you won't have to change.
Now, are you correct to ask the questions? ABSOLUTELY. But the thing is, if you have to ask because you don't know, that's cool because that's how you learn. ButI mean this with all due respect and no offense, but it alsomeans this project is WAAAY outside your skillset. You sayyour buddy is really good, and I believe you. But he's going to have to be REALLY REALLY good, because there is not a thing that's not going to have to be modded in some way, either minortweaks or MAJOR custom one-off fabrication- frame, engine bay, firewall,exhaust, sheetmetal,cockpit, gauges, harnesses, brakes, cooling system, roll cage. I mean, you name the componentand I can tell you what you'll probably have to change. It's a project of imense proportions and it can be done, but what I'll tell you is wait for the inheritance because there's no way $17K is going to pull it off. It's going to cost a WHOLE lot more than that if you don't want to be left with some cobbled up piece of junk that's unreliable and can't be driven.
I want you to do it because it would be the coolest 03-04 Mach EVER, but the more you know up front the better off you're going to be. Get ready to spend 30-50K if you want to do it right. And you want to do it right.
03-25-2008, 03:14 PM
#15
Mach I Section Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: round abouts these parts
Posts: 7,140
RE: 351/460
pony, ill try to get a quick build sheet for you on round about prices of things needed to make this work. off the top of my head getting 700rwhp im hink 7-8k in the motor alone, but if you want something a little more tame ~500 your still looking at 2-4k (depending how you shop).
GP,
i didnt even think about the torque the BB would put on the frame [>:] i should be better than that[:@]. i'm pretty sure the engine bay the only thing that will need to be changed is the shock tower, (just because it eases the install), and instead of using the K member to mount it bolt it directly to the frame. ther tranny tunnel will have to be modified though (unless there is an adapter kit for a T-56 viper spec).
GP,
i didnt even think about the torque the BB would put on the frame [>:] i should be better than that[:@]. i'm pretty sure the engine bay the only thing that will need to be changed is the shock tower, (just because it eases the install), and instead of using the K member to mount it bolt it directly to the frame. ther tranny tunnel will have to be modified though (unless there is an adapter kit for a T-56 viper spec).
03-25-2008, 08:05 PM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: jersey
Posts: 287
RE: 351/460
hey guys thanks for everything this is the first time i got to see this thread. haha forgive some of my replies i'm not as much of an amatuer as some of it sounded. i work during the day so i called up a buddy of mine who works nights, and had him log onto my account, and post this for me cause my computer was acting up last night, and i was anxious. i told him what to say, and he did it, and used some of his own words. now i do have a friend that is really really good though he had to look into everything. he is more of a gm/dodge guy he has a 68 gto, and 58 bel air, and has had trans ams, and darts, and barracudas, and cutlasses things like that. big 60s/early 70s muscle cars. for a young guy of not even 25 yet he is definitely by far the smartest person i have ever met when it comes to an automobile. he had to research everything himself to be sure though.
now i don't understand some of this, but i can do everything imaginable at least as far as maintenance is concerned, and modifications, and engine pulling and all of that. i usually need the haynes manual in front of me, but you're right. i couldn't actually pull off this job without some kind of guidance or knowledge higher than what i already have. i have been driving for 20 years just this month, and have never been to a mechanic. this kind of seems like a pain in the ***, and i need to have this dropped in before the week of april 14th is through. i think i will probably just stick with the rebuild kit for the 4.6. i already have a list of modifications i have done to this car already, so it's not a power thing totally. i just was interested in having either a bigger block[351] or a big block[460]. i have had both these motors growing up, so i would love one in this car.
all the input is appreciated though. i was just interested to know if it has been done, or if anyone knows of someone or one of these cars that it has been done to. by the way in the 5.0 forum i have seen not recently, but i have come across talk about a 460 in a fox. i couldn't even imagine a 460 under the hood of one, but wouldn't it take the same amount of work, and mods, and changes to put a 460 in a fox, as it does my 03 mach 1?
now i don't understand some of this, but i can do everything imaginable at least as far as maintenance is concerned, and modifications, and engine pulling and all of that. i usually need the haynes manual in front of me, but you're right. i couldn't actually pull off this job without some kind of guidance or knowledge higher than what i already have. i have been driving for 20 years just this month, and have never been to a mechanic. this kind of seems like a pain in the ***, and i need to have this dropped in before the week of april 14th is through. i think i will probably just stick with the rebuild kit for the 4.6. i already have a list of modifications i have done to this car already, so it's not a power thing totally. i just was interested in having either a bigger block[351] or a big block[460]. i have had both these motors growing up, so i would love one in this car.
all the input is appreciated though. i was just interested to know if it has been done, or if anyone knows of someone or one of these cars that it has been done to. by the way in the 5.0 forum i have seen not recently, but i have come across talk about a 460 in a fox. i couldn't even imagine a 460 under the hood of one, but wouldn't it take the same amount of work, and mods, and changes to put a 460 in a fox, as it does my 03 mach 1?
03-25-2008, 08:30 PM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,447
RE: 351/460
ORIGINAL: ponyponer
hey guys thanks for everything this is the first time i got to see this thread. haha forgive some of my replies i'm not as much of an amatuer as some of it sounded. i work during the day so i called up a buddy of mine who works nights, and had him log onto my account, and post this for me cause my computer was acting up last night, and i was anxious. i told him what to say, and he did it, and used some of his own words. now i do have a friend that is really really good though he had to look into everything. he is more of a gm/dodge guy he has a 68 gto, and 58 bel air, and has had trans ams, and darts, and barracudas, and cutlasses things like that. big 60s/early 70s muscle cars. for a young guy of not even 25 yet he is definitely by far the smartest person i have ever met when it comes to an automobile. he had to research everything himself to be sure though.
now i don't understand some of this, but i can do everything imaginable at least as far as maintenance is concerned, and modifications, and engine pulling and all of that. i usually need the haynes manual in front of me, but you're right. i couldn't actually pull off this job without some kind of guidance or knowledge higher than what i already have. i have been driving for 20 years just this month, and have never been to a mechanic. this kind of seems like a pain in the ***, and i need to have this dropped in before the week of april 14th is through. i think i will probably just stick with the rebuild kit for the 4.6. i already have a list of modifications i have done to this car already, so it's not a power thing totally. i just was interested in having either a bigger block[351] or a big block[460]. i have had both these motors growing up, so i would love one in this car.
all the input is appreciated though. i was just interested to know if it has been done, or if anyone knows of someone or one of these cars that it has been done to. by the way in the 5.0 forum i have seen not recently, but i have come across talk about a 460 in a fox. i couldn't even imagine a 460 under the hood of one, but wouldn't it take the same amount of work, and mods, and changes to put a 460 in a fox, as it does my 03 mach 1?
hey guys thanks for everything this is the first time i got to see this thread. haha forgive some of my replies i'm not as much of an amatuer as some of it sounded. i work during the day so i called up a buddy of mine who works nights, and had him log onto my account, and post this for me cause my computer was acting up last night, and i was anxious. i told him what to say, and he did it, and used some of his own words. now i do have a friend that is really really good though he had to look into everything. he is more of a gm/dodge guy he has a 68 gto, and 58 bel air, and has had trans ams, and darts, and barracudas, and cutlasses things like that. big 60s/early 70s muscle cars. for a young guy of not even 25 yet he is definitely by far the smartest person i have ever met when it comes to an automobile. he had to research everything himself to be sure though.
now i don't understand some of this, but i can do everything imaginable at least as far as maintenance is concerned, and modifications, and engine pulling and all of that. i usually need the haynes manual in front of me, but you're right. i couldn't actually pull off this job without some kind of guidance or knowledge higher than what i already have. i have been driving for 20 years just this month, and have never been to a mechanic. this kind of seems like a pain in the ***, and i need to have this dropped in before the week of april 14th is through. i think i will probably just stick with the rebuild kit for the 4.6. i already have a list of modifications i have done to this car already, so it's not a power thing totally. i just was interested in having either a bigger block[351] or a big block[460]. i have had both these motors growing up, so i would love one in this car.
all the input is appreciated though. i was just interested to know if it has been done, or if anyone knows of someone or one of these cars that it has been done to. by the way in the 5.0 forum i have seen not recently, but i have come across talk about a 460 in a fox. i couldn't even imagine a 460 under the hood of one, but wouldn't it take the same amount of work, and mods, and changes to put a 460 in a fox, as it does my 03 mach 1?
Just don't want to see a fellow Mach'r get in over their head man.. If it'd be a pain in the *** to get it done by your dead-lines as you said, perhaps it'd be best to stay with the 4.6 rebuild kit for now?As pounder said, it might be a good idea towait until the inheritance comes in, and take on the 460 project then if that's still what you want to do. 
03-26-2008, 10:19 AM
#18
Sith Lord/Site Mod
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IA
Posts: 5,036
RE: 351/460
pony, you seem like a guy who knows his way around a garage, a wrench and a Haynes. So if you take this on, you'll be working with a tailwind because you're mechanically inclined. Between you and your buddy, it's VERY possible you guys can pull this off, IF your buddy is a master fabricator, an excellent welder and the both of you are VERY imaginative and can think hard on your feet.
I wouldn't give up on the 460 angle yet, though. I will tell you there's NO WAY unless you started working on it right now all day every daywith a clear plan laid out with major obstacles accounted for and major parts components bought that you would have a 460 in your Machby April 14th. Just too much work to do.
Just keep gathering information so that you know what you're in for if you decide to do it. A few thoughts: a project like this will NOT be anything like a 70's musclecar build, a 58 bel-air or any otherkind of vintage muscle. Now, mechanical inclination is mechanical inclination, so if a guy can build a full race car out of a 68 Goat, he can probably figure out a way to put a 460 in a Mach. 460's in Foxes are old hat and have been done countless times. That would be your template to look at, even though this app is going to be VERY different because it's the road less traveled. Those beasts are usually full bore race cars and have nary a street manner. To get one street worthy, I think you'd have to have an aluminum block because of the weight on the nose, and those run in excess of $5K - for a bare block. The cool thing is that an all aluminum 460 (block &heads) weighs less than a 302! YUMMY!
I stand by my advice to call one of the serious Mustang shops and get their thoughts. They've forgotten more than all of us put together know now, so they would be more advantageous to tap if you decide to go this route. We can help, no doubt, put I wouldn't turn a wrench until I talked to them.
I wouldn't give up on the 460 angle yet, though. I will tell you there's NO WAY unless you started working on it right now all day every daywith a clear plan laid out with major obstacles accounted for and major parts components bought that you would have a 460 in your Machby April 14th. Just too much work to do.
Just keep gathering information so that you know what you're in for if you decide to do it. A few thoughts: a project like this will NOT be anything like a 70's musclecar build, a 58 bel-air or any otherkind of vintage muscle. Now, mechanical inclination is mechanical inclination, so if a guy can build a full race car out of a 68 Goat, he can probably figure out a way to put a 460 in a Mach. 460's in Foxes are old hat and have been done countless times. That would be your template to look at, even though this app is going to be VERY different because it's the road less traveled. Those beasts are usually full bore race cars and have nary a street manner. To get one street worthy, I think you'd have to have an aluminum block because of the weight on the nose, and those run in excess of $5K - for a bare block. The cool thing is that an all aluminum 460 (block &heads) weighs less than a 302! YUMMY!
I stand by my advice to call one of the serious Mustang shops and get their thoughts. They've forgotten more than all of us put together know now, so they would be more advantageous to tap if you decide to go this route. We can help, no doubt, put I wouldn't turn a wrench until I talked to them.
03-26-2008, 12:56 PM
#20
Mach I Section Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: round abouts these parts
Posts: 7,140
RE: 351/460
here's my thought on getting the install started, you will need to strip EVREYTHING out of the mach 1.
you will need to trim or remove the shock towers
DO NOT use mounts use motor plate, they look much more neat, and bolt / weld to the frame
start by building up the suspension and rear end. Use a 9" rear not the stock 8.8
you will need to add braces to the frame so the torque wont warp it
the time you want to do this is is to short to have it all finished.
you will need to trim or remove the shock towers
DO NOT use mounts use motor plate, they look much more neat, and bolt / weld to the frame
start by building up the suspension and rear end. Use a 9" rear not the stock 8.8
you will need to add braces to the frame so the torque wont warp it
the time you want to do this is is to short to have it all finished.