lindseyquads

Looking a getting Tein Flex Coilovers, is any one running these or heard how they ride? I know Tein are great quality but more known for European or Imports just wondering how they are for the mustang.

likemike99

they are just as good for the stang. The adjustable ones are very comprable to the d-specs. I think people just stay away from them because alot of imports use them. silly to me , but i guess people don't want that association.

CrazyAl

In my opinion anyway, there isn't much point in buying coil-overs unless you are a very serious roadcourse racer.

Let me explain why. Coilovers are not "better" shocks. A set of them isn't "better" than any other setup. A coil-over, as it's name implies, is a shock with a coaxial spring mounted to it. Most coil-overs are adjustable for ride height, and some of them have adjustable valving as well. This could be varying degrees of complexity, going anywhere from a simple adjustment like a single ****, anywhere up to a fully rebuildable unit with a customizeable valve stack. So, coilovers have the following features:

1. The spring is coaxial with the shock body.
2. Right height is typically adjustable.
3. They are adjustable with regard to damping.

Now let's see what those features mean.

1. Having a coaxially mounted spring is advantageous because it puts the damping element exactly where the spring is. However, all front shock options for the S197 are coaxial becasue the car has a strut front end. Now then, the stock rear setup is not coaxial. The spring is located further inboard than the shock. However, every coil-over kit that I have seen for the Mustang is no different. The rear has a spring and an adjustable seat, but the parts are still in the OEM location. So in this regard, the coil-overs have no advantage over OEM or typical aftermarket parts.

2. Coil overs let you adjust your ride height. Without coil-overs the only way to do this is to swap springs. For the average person who wants to lower their car for looks or who wants to lower their CG for better handling, coil-overs offer no real advantage. Those of us that want a simple drop can installsomecommon springs and we're done. The advantage to coil-overs is that you can make fine adjustments, which can be used to set up your car for particular racingsituations. BUT, thisis only advantageous if you have the proper tools to set up a chassis, if you knowwhat you're doing with regard to chassis setup,and if you aresufficiently skilled and willing to do all the follow-up adjustments (pinion angle, camber, caster, and so on) that come with changing ride height. So, IF you are an expert in chassis setup and you're willing to take the time to fiddle with things, then coil-overs MAY be advantageous toan "oem style" setup. But, if you don't know what you're doing, they aremorelikely to be a downgrade in performance...or best case theywill bea very expensive equivalent to a set of Eibach Pro-Kit springs.

3. Damping Adjustment.Damping adjustments on coil-overs vary. Some of them are like the D-specs in that they give you one **** which controls both damping and rebound. In this casethe adjustment is a good thing and it's hard to screw it up. But you are at the mercy of how good the factory valving is set. You can tweak it up or down with the ****, but fundamentally most of the valving is decided for you.And it is very hard to compete with the valving of the D-spec (which was designed by Steeda in conjuction with Ford). Even the FRPP and Roush shocks, while not as good as theD-specs, are good as well. I have yet to see a set of coilovers whose valving is better than any of those choices. Some of the more serious coilovers are fully configurable for valving. You can change the valve stack yourself...again, assuming you have the proper tools. In this case you're playing with fire. If you are a suspension expert and you take the time to tweak everything exactly right, then you might get things set better than the D-specs or the other shocks I mentioned above, but it willtake a lot of money and many, many hours of testing and installation to get there. On the other hand, if you aren't an experienced valve-stack rebuilder then you are 99% certain to end up with a setup that is worse than an off-the-shelf solution.

I don't recommend the Tiens (or any other coilover) not becasue of quality, but becasue of how well they suit people's needs. The Tiens are great quality. BUT, most people don't have the equipment, the skill, or the inclination to set these things up right....and I include myself in that "most people". Think of it like a woodcarving knife. In the hands of an expert, that knife can transform a chunk of wood into a work of art. But in anyone else's hands, it's more likely to result in an unrecognizeable lump and maybe a few cuts along the way.

The real advantage to coilovers is their adjustability. But just becasue a part is adjustable doens't make it better. You have to know how to adjust it, and then you have to do it properly....otherwise the adjustability isa liability and not a benefit at all.

offrdmania

Well stated!

lindseyquads

Thanks for all that info, but not what I was asking not to be rude. Also I am skilled enough to install them done many sets on manydifferent carsI simply asked if anyone is running this setup or knows someone that is. I just want first hand experince not opions from people thatdont have them or know someone that does,again not trying to be rude

RodeoFlyer

also not to be rude to you, but some things to think about here -

1. exactly how much do you know about the suspension on these cars?
2. europeans and imports are in no way to related to these cars - what they have done for them doesn't mean it's the same for S197's
3. are you hung up on the name? they are very expensive
4. Dominos' pizzamight be okay but their wings suck - stick with companies known for mustang specific parts
5. you're not likely to get the opinion of anyone on here that has them because more than likely none of us do
6. im assuming you want the height adjustablility, and if that's the case it's a hell of a lot of money to spend. Eibach would be a better choice for you.

bottom line - unless you are a hard core road racer they are a waste of money and effort for you. not to be rude to you either but if you're on here asking about them you more than likely don't fit in the genre that requires them. it's your money, but there's SO much more you could do instead.

likemike99

teins do make non coil overs as well.

steelcomp

Hey RF..."not to be rude", but you can be a real arrogant ***, sometimes. What makes you such an expert that you can tell someone that "because they are asking about coilovers, they don't "belong"?? Belong where, in your league?? LOL.
How many parts have you designed and built for your car? Are you an engineer? Are you a fabricator? How about a designer? Maybe you're a prefessional racer? Professonal race car builder?
How 'bout none of the above.
AFAICT...you've done nothing more than anyone else here...bought parts and bolted them on your car. BFD you autocross...that don't mean s hit. Maybe hit the "big" track on the weekend? OOooooh, my.
I'm really sorry, but I've read about enough of your arrogance here, and your insults and put downs to others who aren't any different than you. At one time, you didn't know s hit either, so try and lighten up a little, eh?

AP2TUDE

I like how everyone says that if you aren't a hardcore racer, coilovers are a waste of money. That really isn't true, and that tag of "a waste of money" is going to be different from person to person. As far as I see it, just lay out the pros and cons and let the person decide for themselves if it is worth their money or not.

Not all coilovers are going to be damping adjustable. This is a good thing, and a bad thing; it just depends on how you look at it.

As far as I see it, the largest benefit of coil-overs is that it is a shock and spring combination; meaning that they are paired for one another. The benefit here is that the valving on the shocks will match the spring rates which are used. If you piece together a kit yourself, say something like Eibachs or Steedas or Vogtlands or whatever, and some struts like Tokicos or Bilsteins, the valving on the struts is going to be fairly generically set based somewhat loosely around the stock spring rates. Yes they are going to be more aggressive than the stock struts, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily matched with the spring rates for the springs that you have chosen. With a coil-over, they are paired. That means that their compression and rebound should work to 100% of its capacity given the spring rates on the car.

Height adjustability. Yes it is a big selling point. Sometimes it is the only selling point that is needed for people. The ability to specifically tailor the ride height of your car to suit your personal preferences is a huge benefit. With any springs you are left at the mercy of whatever their drop is. Does that mean that you can't get a simple lowering spring set to look the way that you want? No. But it does mean that is signifcantly more difficult than if you can simply do it yourself.

Now with the damping adjustable kits you run into a lot more issues. Yes it is possible to gleen a lot more performance from them, but the average consumer isn't likely to be able to do that. For most people a 16-way adjustable strut simply means that you have 16 ways to screw up your handling. Without some fairly specific tools, dialing in the perfect balance of damping is very difficult. If you are going to get some adjustable dampers, stick with some that only have a few settings. This makes it much easier to find a balance with the car and lessens your liklihood of creating adverse handling conditions.

Now CrazyAl made a very good point about the setup of the rear suspension on the Mustang. Technically, the rear isn't even a coil-over at all. It is a strut and an adjustable spring perch. The downside of this setup is that the lower you go with your car, the more than you lessen the compression stroke on the shock. That is a bad thing. Now there really isn't any way to correct it without completly changing your suspension geometry, but it should still be noted that there are some potential issues with that setup.

Someone mentioned that you should stick with manufacturers who primarily make Mustang parts. Honestly, I think that is retarded; especially when it comes to suspension. Would I recommend buying engine internals from someone who doesn't do a lot of Mustangs? No. But suspension isn't ultra specific per vehicle make. There are only so many different types of setups available on cars, any hardcore suspension manufacturer should have a level of expertise with any of them. Now just because Tein is a Japanese company doesn't mean that they wouldn't understand the suspension on a Mustang. Springs are springs, dampers are dampers, you only really need to understand how they work together in order to make a setup that functions well. The only issue that I can stress when it comes to who you buy from, is to buy from someone who you know manufacturers their own stuff. When they make it themself, they are responsible for the quality of the product. There are three companies who manufacture springs in Germany, Eibach, Vogtland, and H&R. A lot of the American companies who provide springs for Mustangs buy their components from one of those three. Tein on the other hand gets all of their components from Taiwan. You should be aware of that when making your decision. Their really high end kits are all made in Japan, their quality speaks for itself. The others aren't made there, so the quality of those products should be judged on a case by case basis.

So if the question comes down to "worth," then it really depends on what you want to get vs. what you want to spend. If you are on a budget and aren't super particular about your ride height then I think that you can piece together a very good setup on your own. 8 times out of 10 for most racers, simple is much better than complex. Remember the more complicated you make your car, the harder it is to dial it in correctly. Now if you have the ability and the time to tune everything to your liking, as well as the budget, then a more adjustable setup can be worth your time. Just judge for yourself.

Jon

CrazyAl

I agree with your comments for the most part, but I would like to make a couple of points.


First off, most aftermarket springs for a given car have about the same spring rate.When you lower a car with springs (and don't have adjustable perches or coil-overs) then the spring rate and free heightis the key determining factor of the ride height. For multiple springs of the same (or similar) drops, the rates will be about the same. In other words, the Eibach Pro-kit springs have a very similar rate to the Steeda Ultralite springs, and in turn to the Roush springs...and so on. It just so happens that these are just different brands of basically the same thing. This means that for most combinations of "common" aftermarket shocks and springs the pairing is very good. I don't think there is much of a reason to be concerned with spring rate & damping mismatch unless you are working with a very low drop (which aren't intended for high performance use anyway) such as the Eibach Sportlines.

My comments about "worth" are basically this: I see a lot of people who consider a mod (such as coil-overs) and they make the assumtion that this mod (whatever it may be) is somehow better than what they currently have on their car. They think that if they buy said mod, their car will suddenly be improved...whatever that means.

The trouble is that a great many mods are trade-offs of one sort or another. Wether or not they are "better" depends on the individual application, and details like the skill of the mechanic/driver, the type of driving being done, etc.

For example:

Automatics are better for drag racing, but are typically worse for road-course racing.

Front panhard bar is critical for good handling on the road course...but is just extra dead weight on the drag strip.

A really aggressive LCA angle setting is excellent for drag racing....but is bad for handling in the curves and has a very harsh ride on the street. (Ditto for an extremely stiff rear sway bar)

Suspension parts with rod-ends offer better articulation and less flex than poly or rubber...but they also increase NVH.

...in these examples, are the parts "better" than the others? No,it depends on what you want out of the car.

I would suggest that for most people Coil-overs aren't better than a fixed setup such as D-specs and springs. The Dspec/spring combo is much less expensive, and for an installer/driver who is not a suspension expert, will provide better ride and handling.

On the other hand, in the hands of a skilled installer who takes the time to properly set things up for a given track, they can give the driver an extra edge....but you can't just assume that a coil-over install is "better" than non coil overs. Better in what regard? Quieter? Less body roll? Even tire temps? More control in the corners?...for what tracks? On the drag strip or the road course?...is that a hard braking track or not?

I don't think the ride height differences matter enough to warrant the use of coil-overs for "getting the look just perfect". I don't know anyone who can look at a car and tell me exactly how much it's been lowered. If you want a "one inch drop" then anywhere from 3/4" to 1 1/4" will be indistinguishable to 99% of the population.