Pinion Yoke Angle?
02-24-2007, 03:20 PM
#1
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Pinion Yoke Angle?
I have my pinion angle set at negative 2 degrees which is okay but my question relates to the angle of the pinion itself. Does it matter whether the angle of the pinion is below or above level (0 degrees)? Right now my driveshaft is at +1 and the pinion is at -1 (angled downwards towards the front). Should I set it at +3 and +1, respectively, or does it not matter just as long as the working pinion angle itself calculates within spec?
Thanks to anyone who can help.
Thanks to anyone who can help.
02-24-2007, 04:17 PM
#2
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
For the OEM 2-pc driveshaft, the correct setting is about a 2 degree difference in angle between the driveshaft and the pinion, with the pinion "nose down" to get that difference. Technically this is called a negative angle. However, if the measurement is actually negative depends on how you measure it, so it can be confusing.
02-24-2007, 10:01 PM
#3
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: RedFire281
I have my pinion angle set at negative 2 degrees which is okay but my question relates to the angle of the pinion itself. Does it matter whether the angle of the pinion is below or above level (0 degrees)? Right now my driveshaft is at +1 and the pinion is at -1 (angled downwards towards the front). Should I set it at +3 and +1, respectively, or does it not matter just as long as the working pinion angle itself calculates within spec?
Thanks to anyone who can help.
I have my pinion angle set at negative 2 degrees which is okay but my question relates to the angle of the pinion itself. Does it matter whether the angle of the pinion is below or above level (0 degrees)? Right now my driveshaft is at +1 and the pinion is at -1 (angled downwards towards the front). Should I set it at +3 and +1, respectively, or does it not matter just as long as the working pinion angle itself calculates within spec?
Thanks to anyone who can help.
If your driveshaft is at +3 and your pinion is at +1 you have a pinion angle of +4
What your're looking for is the relationship between the 2 angles.
02-25-2007, 11:54 AM
#4
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: 07GT
If your driveshaft is at +1 and your pinion is at -1, you have a pinion angle of 0.
If your driveshaft is at +3 and your pinion is at +1 you have a pinion angle of +4
What your're looking for is the relationship between the 2 angles.
If your driveshaft is at +1 and your pinion is at -1, you have a pinion angle of 0.
If your driveshaft is at +3 and your pinion is at +1 you have a pinion angle of +4
What your're looking for is the relationship between the 2 angles.
Take your first example: +1 and -1. Howcan that be zero degrees? Zero degrees would mean there is no angle, which means both measurements would be the same. +1 -1 is a TWO degree difference.
The correct formula isDriveshaft angle minus pinion angle.
+3 +1 is a two degree angle also.
02-25-2007, 12:22 PM
#5
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
This is incorrect. You are indeed looking for the "relationship" between the two angles, butyour math is wrong.Remember you want the differencebetween the two angles.
Take your first example: +1 and -1. Howcan that be zero degrees? Zero degrees would mean there is no angle, which means both measurements would be the same. +1 -1 is a TWO degree difference.
The correct formula isDriveshaft angle minus pinion angle.
+3 +1 is a two degree angle also.
ORIGINAL: 07GT
If your driveshaft is at +1 and your pinion is at -1, you have a pinion angle of 0.
If your driveshaft is at +3 and your pinion is at +1 you have a pinion angle of +4
What your're looking for is the relationship between the 2 angles.
If your driveshaft is at +1 and your pinion is at -1, you have a pinion angle of 0.
If your driveshaft is at +3 and your pinion is at +1 you have a pinion angle of +4
What your're looking for is the relationship between the 2 angles.
Take your first example: +1 and -1. Howcan that be zero degrees? Zero degrees would mean there is no angle, which means both measurements would be the same. +1 -1 is a TWO degree difference.
The correct formula isDriveshaft angle minus pinion angle.
+3 +1 is a two degree angle also.
Check this link, it confirms what I'm saying. As you can see in the example, (-2) + (+2) = 0 and (+2) + (+2) = 4
You sir are absolutely wrong.
http://www.carcraft.com/howto/91758/photo_01.html
02-25-2007, 02:03 PM
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
Ah! I should have known that article was involved. You and I are both in agreement, but that article is complicating things. I really wish I could reach my hand through the computer screen and slap whomever wrote it, but here goes:
Generally, when someonemeasures angles you use a common referance point that is consistent for all measurements. For example, "clockwise angles are positive and counter-clockwise measurements are negative". This is the formally correct method used in mathematics and in engineering drawings. (remember geometry class?).
The problem is that this article doesn't follow that convention. That article is very misleading becasue of a certain assumption that they are making at the very beginning. You see where it says (in the first "image") The driveshaft angle is negative if it slopes downwards towards the intersection and positive if it slopes upward, The pinion angl eis positive if it slopes upward and negative if it slopes downward
This statement is problematic. It is basically saying that if you measure the driveshaft angle a certain way, then you should measure the pinion angle "backwards" from that measurement. They are calling the the driveshaft angle postitive-clockwise and at the same time they are calling the pinion angle positive-counterclockwise. VERY CONFUSING, and VERY DUMB of the author.
In the real world a protractor or angle gage doesn't do this. When you are actually working on the car, your tools don't magically change how they are calibrated based on wether or not you're measuring the driveshaft or the pinion angle. All it does is provide an angle with respect to the ground....so if you want to use that formula in the article you mentioned, then you have to artificially negate the pinion side angle.
But when you do that it is mathematially the same as simply subtracting the two angles if you measure them according to the de facto standard.
In other words. A + (-B) = A-B.
Generally, when someonemeasures angles you use a common referance point that is consistent for all measurements. For example, "clockwise angles are positive and counter-clockwise measurements are negative". This is the formally correct method used in mathematics and in engineering drawings. (remember geometry class?).
The problem is that this article doesn't follow that convention. That article is very misleading becasue of a certain assumption that they are making at the very beginning. You see where it says (in the first "image") The driveshaft angle is negative if it slopes downwards towards the intersection and positive if it slopes upward, The pinion angl eis positive if it slopes upward and negative if it slopes downward
This statement is problematic. It is basically saying that if you measure the driveshaft angle a certain way, then you should measure the pinion angle "backwards" from that measurement. They are calling the the driveshaft angle postitive-clockwise and at the same time they are calling the pinion angle positive-counterclockwise. VERY CONFUSING, and VERY DUMB of the author.
In the real world a protractor or angle gage doesn't do this. When you are actually working on the car, your tools don't magically change how they are calibrated based on wether or not you're measuring the driveshaft or the pinion angle. All it does is provide an angle with respect to the ground....so if you want to use that formula in the article you mentioned, then you have to artificially negate the pinion side angle.
But when you do that it is mathematially the same as simply subtracting the two angles if you measure them according to the de facto standard.
In other words. A + (-B) = A-B.
02-25-2007, 02:36 PM
#7
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
Ah! I should have known that article was involved. You and I are both in agreement, but that article is complicating things. I really wish I could reach my hand through the computer screen and slap whomever wrote it, but here goes:
Generally, when someonemeasures angles you use a common referance point that is consistent for all measurements. For example, "clockwise angles are positive and counter-clockwise measurements are negative". This is the formally correct method used in mathematics and in engineering drawings. (remember geometry class?).
The problem is that this article doesn't follow that convention. That article is very misleading becasue of a certain assumption that they are making at the very beginning. You see where it says (in the first "image") The driveshaft angle is negative if it slopes downwards towards the intersection and positive if it slopes upward, The pinion angl eis positive if it slopes upward and negative if it slopes downward
This statement is problematic. It is basically saying that if you measure the driveshaft angle a certain way, then you should measure the pinion angle "backwards" from that measurement. They are calling the the driveshaft angle postitive-clockwise and at the same time they are calling the pinion angle positive-counterclockwise. VERY CONFUSING, and VERY DUMB of the author.
In the real world a protractor or angle gage doesn't do this. When you are actually working on the car, your tools don't magically change how they are calibrated based on wether or not you're measuring the driveshaft or the pinion angle. All it does is provide an angle with respect to the ground....so if you want to use that formula in the article you mentioned, then you have to artificially negate the pinion side angle.
But when you do that it is mathematially the same as simply subtracting the two angles if you measure them according to the de facto standard.
In other words. A + (-B) = A-B.
Ah! I should have known that article was involved. You and I are both in agreement, but that article is complicating things. I really wish I could reach my hand through the computer screen and slap whomever wrote it, but here goes:
Generally, when someonemeasures angles you use a common referance point that is consistent for all measurements. For example, "clockwise angles are positive and counter-clockwise measurements are negative". This is the formally correct method used in mathematics and in engineering drawings. (remember geometry class?).
The problem is that this article doesn't follow that convention. That article is very misleading becasue of a certain assumption that they are making at the very beginning. You see where it says (in the first "image") The driveshaft angle is negative if it slopes downwards towards the intersection and positive if it slopes upward, The pinion angl eis positive if it slopes upward and negative if it slopes downward
This statement is problematic. It is basically saying that if you measure the driveshaft angle a certain way, then you should measure the pinion angle "backwards" from that measurement. They are calling the the driveshaft angle postitive-clockwise and at the same time they are calling the pinion angle positive-counterclockwise. VERY CONFUSING, and VERY DUMB of the author.
In the real world a protractor or angle gage doesn't do this. When you are actually working on the car, your tools don't magically change how they are calibrated based on wether or not you're measuring the driveshaft or the pinion angle. All it does is provide an angle with respect to the ground....so if you want to use that formula in the article you mentioned, then you have to artificially negate the pinion side angle.
But when you do that it is mathematially the same as simply subtracting the two angles if you measure them according to the de facto standard.
In other words. A + (-B) = A-B.
02-25-2007, 03:42 PM
#8
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: 07GT
I maintain that the angles I came up with are correct, and your answers are wrong. +3 + +1 is not +2, it is +4 Draw it on paper and you'll see. By the way, the way they do it in the article is standard convention in the racing world.
I maintain that the angles I came up with are correct, and your answers are wrong. +3 + +1 is not +2, it is +4 Draw it on paper and you'll see. By the way, the way they do it in the article is standard convention in the racing world.
Using the "definintion of angle" that this article makes, your number in your above examples are absoloutley correct.
I am objecting because this is a silly system of measurement.It isestablished practice in engineering and mathematics to make all measurements from a common referance point. It makes little sense to call driveshaft angles positive in one direction and then call pinion angles positive in the opposite direction...especially when the tools used for measurements are not set up like this.
As I said above, you get exactly the same results if you do it either way: A-B is the same thing as A + (-B).
I objected to your first post becasue I did not know that you were using this non-standard measurement convention when you were describing how the angle is measured.
02-25-2007, 04:16 PM
#9
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
ORIGINAL: CrazyAl
Oh, they are correct, ifand when you make the"sign convention" assumption thatthis article makes.
Using the "definintion of angle" that this article makes, your number in your above examples are absoloutley correct.
I am objecting because this is a silly system of measurement.It isestablished practice in engineering and mathematics to make all measurements from a common referance point. It makes little sense to call driveshaft angles positive in one direction and then call pinion angles positive in the opposite direction...especially when the tools used for measurements are not set up like this.
As I said above, you get exactly the same results if you do it either way: A-B is the same thing as A + (-B).
I objected to your first post becasue I did not know that you were using this non-standard measurement convention when you were describing how the angle is measured.
ORIGINAL: 07GT
I maintain that the angles I came up with are correct, and your answers are wrong. +3 + +1 is not +2, it is +4 Draw it on paper and you'll see. By the way, the way they do it in the article is standard convention in the racing world.
I maintain that the angles I came up with are correct, and your answers are wrong. +3 + +1 is not +2, it is +4 Draw it on paper and you'll see. By the way, the way they do it in the article is standard convention in the racing world.
Using the "definintion of angle" that this article makes, your number in your above examples are absoloutley correct.
I am objecting because this is a silly system of measurement.It isestablished practice in engineering and mathematics to make all measurements from a common referance point. It makes little sense to call driveshaft angles positive in one direction and then call pinion angles positive in the opposite direction...especially when the tools used for measurements are not set up like this.
As I said above, you get exactly the same results if you do it either way: A-B is the same thing as A + (-B).
I objected to your first post becasue I did not know that you were using this non-standard measurement convention when you were describing how the angle is measured.
02-25-2007, 05:12 PM
#10
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RE: Pinion Yoke Angle?
Here's another way to look at it.
Lets take +1 driveshaft angle and +2 pinion angle, my way that’s +3, your way that’s –1, does that make sense?
With the pivot point being where the driveshaft and pinion connect, it only makes sense to add them.
With your way the angle depends on which is larger, the driveshaft angle or the pinion angle, you know that can’t work and doesn’t make sense.
Let’s use an extreme example of both driveshaft and pinion are at +10, my way that’s +20, your way that’s 0.
You’d have a driveshaft/pinion looking like this / \, and your way comes out to 0, I don’t think so.
Let’s change that example of +10 and +10 to +10 and +5, your way that’s +5, you went from 0 to +5, the pinion angle went positive, even though the pinion went down. It doesn’t work.
Imagine or draw the angle and your way makes no sense.
You have to calculate the individual angles from 0, but to come out with the pinion angle you then have to add them.
It's hard to explain on paper without diagrams, but read carefully what I'm saying and see if you still don't agree. I know one thing, if I ever meet you in person I'm going to buy you a beer.[sm=icon_cheers.gif]