dseid2

F1Fan:

Finally gotthe vibration problemresolved this past weekend. It tookthree 4.10 gear sets but the vibration is gone.A driveline shopfinally gotthe 3rd gear setright after theyre-setit a dozen times. A contributor on another thread says thatthe carriers in the Ford 8.8's are badand that Ford knows about it. He said that Fordfixes it at the factory by using a back cut ring gear and a special lapping process on the gears after install. I odn't know if this is true but so far it is the only plausible answer I have heard.This contributor also says he ended up putting in an Eaton posi unit. Note that my backlash is set at 24 thousandths which I think is causing a little click when I engage first and revers, but since I have no vibration and no wine I am going to live with it.

The Powerhouse aluminum driveshaft I tried before the third 4.10 gear set was installed only made the vibration worse. The driveline shop spun the Powerhouse driveshaft and said it was out 20 thousandths towards the rear of the shaft. I am going toreturn the Powerhouse driveshaft to CHE.

Best Regards

F1Fan

Hi dseid2,

YIKES! Three sets of gears to find a good set what brand were they? Sounds likea brand to avoid to me or themechanic was maybe not the best man for this task. Why would changing the R&P create a vibration unless there was a problem with the ring centering, balance or trueness of the ring and pinionset?As long as thecarrier'sring mountingface is flat with reasonable runoutand perpenicular to the axis of the pinion bearings this is a R&P issue and cannot bea fault of the carrier. Whatthe other thread contributor said makes absolutely no sense at all as it would be so much cheaper and faster to simply correct the carrier flaws on an milling station outside of the pumpkin than to perform any sort of machine or gear face finish work with the R&P installed in the pumpkin not to mention the issue of where all those metalbits went when theallegedR&Pfininshing work was completed. I sure wouldn't want themcontaminating the lube and my posi's clutch pack. Back cutting thering gear is a design featureuseful forreduce rotating weight and in a largish ring gear like the 8.8" rear endthis is apractical and useful featuretoreduce parasitic rotating losses and improving the power delivered to the wheels.Sounds like yet another guy who knows nothing about mechanical design talking out of his butt. This is getting so common it's not even funny or sad to me anymore.

I don't know why people are so yipped up about going to a one piece driveshaft. Sure I can see the advantages to loosing a bunch of rotating weight but that weight loss while significant is not going to be as effective a weight loss as spendingthe money on say lightweight wheels where the weighthas so much more mechanical advantage being so far from the rotational axis when comparedto a 4" drive shaft.At 2" from the axis vs 13"-14" for the axis a mere 3-5 lbs. per wheel is a muchbetter performance investment not to mention the bonus ofa bigimprovement in handling, ride and grip you would gain from the lower unsprung weight of a lightweightwheel.There have been so many one-piece driveshaft vibration and fitment problems postednot to mention mechanical interference issues on lowered S197's that I'm surprisedthere are stillbeople buying them at all.I would bet that if you did a search and counted the number of one-piece driveshaft problems posted they would out number theproblems postedfrom the earlymetal geared billet60+mm throttle bodies! Even though the early billet TB problems have beenresolved by BBK's 62mm TB using the same gears as Ford used people keep posting complaints about larger TB'sbased on the problms seen with the old billet TB's made my no name companies in their garages. Then the very same people turnaroundand post praise about their one-piece driveshafteven though it addsvibrationat 80mph and up. I don't know about you but I drive 80mph and faster on a egualr basis and adding vibration at speed IMO is notO.K as I go faster.

Having been involved in serious road racing and manufacturer's factoryshow carefforts for many years I'm sort of jaded about fabrication and meterial quality. CHE's suspension parts quality has never impressed me in a favorable way. CHE's crudemechanical design and poor fabrication quality IMO have no place on my car or my friend's cars even ifonly usedto gobuy beer at the local grocery store and an occasionalpass down thedrag strip. I have had to abort suspension installations due to CHE suspension partsnot fitting correctly and once,weld qualityand it really wrecked my day and the guy who bought thoseCHE parts. I've had to modify CHE parts to fit where they were just off a little bit, you know just like that one piece driveshaft you have that vibrates because it out 20 thou. I tell people all the time to spend the extra money and buy the best parts available, it's well worth the little exteabit of money you have to part withfor a better designed, better fabricatedpart that will fit,work better and last longer.

Anywho, just my.02 cents, YMMV.

Cheers!

dseid2

F1Fan:

All three gearsets were FRPP 4.10's. The first install was done by JBA, the second by Ken Grody Ford and the third by Driveline Vista. The mechanic at Driveline Vista worked for two days to get the job done right. I agree that back cutting the ring does not make a lot of sense, but whatever the issue is there is something funky with the Ford 8.8 on my Mustang and I have seen other threads where other Mustang owners are having similar problems after changing the ring and pinion. Who would have thought changing the R&P would be so aggravating? Fortunately the result has been worth it.

I sent the Powerhouse aluminum driveshaft back to CHE for a refund. There was no noticeable improvement in performance and of course the vibrationwas unacceptable. The only noticeable thing thePowerhouse driveshaft did (other than vibrate) was amplify the exhaust note.

I can't comment on the quality of CHE's parts as the Powerhouse driveshaft is the only part I have ever purchased from them. I can say thatCHE's customer service was quite good.

Best Regards

Black07CS

Hey F1Fan,

You say you have done many suspension installations - do you have a list of the one time use hardware and best sources to get them? Many of us I'm sure just popped off the stock and put in the new shocks and springs with factory nuts/bolts. I know I did.

The reason I found this thread is thatI am getting a clunking in the front end when I hit any bumps, 5k miles after I installed my Tokico D specs and Steeda springs. After reading your thread above about the ball joint nut it made me think about how I had an issue whereit would not tighten, it only spun around. I think I am talking about the same part you are (A-R barlink'sball joint nut ), but not sure. I have attached a pic of the part. It's not my car but the same part in a pic on the left where the stud goes through the bracket on the strut.

Thanks

[IMG]local://upfiles/47828/3510301298E8491B98EEA38BF70022F1.jpg[/IMG]

F1Fan

Hi Black07CS,

Yes I've done many S197GT suspension installations out in my garage. I don't have a list of the fastener part numbers because I justgo to mylocal Ford dealer and point out the parts I needand what they don't have in stock they order and have them for me later in the day or the next day if I go late in the day. Each of the suspension makers includes different hardware depending on the kit. Some kits reuse all of the nuts and bolts, some kitsreused only a few of the nuts and bolts and some maker's kits supply some new nuts and bolts and some mix it up just for fun so you never really "know" what you need until you haveall of the parts to be installed actually in your hands and can test fit and see what you really need.

Thatsingle nut is the singlebiggest cause of the dreaded klunk,not surprisingly it is also one of the throw-away fasteners. The Ford S197factory shop manual advises and warns you on almost every page that you need to dispose of the fasteners and install new Ford sourced fasteners.

Here is the text of the Ford shop manual for the stabalizier bar linkage. The red coloredtext is the important stuffto know.

From the 2005 Mustang Ford Shop Manual:

Removal and Installation

CAUTION: Suspension fasteners are critical parts because they affect performance of vital components and systems and their failure can result in major service expense. A new part with the same part number or an equivalent part must be installed, if installation is necessary. Do not use a part of lesser quality or substitute design. Torque values must be used as specified during reassembly to ensure correct retention of these parts. [*]With the vehicle in NEUTRAL, position it on a hoist. For additional information, refer to Section 100-02 .[*]Remove the wheel and tire assembly. For additional information, refer to Section 204-04 .[*]
CAUTION: Use the hex-holding feature to prevent the studs from turning while removing or installing the stabilizer bar link nuts. The boot seal must not be allowed to twist at all while tightening the nuts. Remove and discard the stabilizer bar link lower nut. [*]To install, tighten to 115 Nm (85 lb-ft).
[ul][/ul][*]Disconnect the link from the stabilizer bar.[*]
CAUTION: Use the hex holding feature to prevent the studs from turning while removing or installing the stabilizer bar link nuts. The boot seal must not be allowed to twist at all while tightening the nuts. Remove and discard the stabilizer bar link upper nut. [*]To install, tighten to 115 Nm (85 lb-ft).
[ul][/ul][*]Disconnect the link from the strut.[*]To install, reverse the removal procedure.[*]Always install new stabilizer bar link nuts.
[ul][/ul]
[ol][/ol]


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Cheers!

Black07CS

Thanks F1Fan! I'll let you know if that solves my problem.

FMGT/CS

Can any one give me the cost of lca bolts.I called ford they said for the kit was like 128.00
does this sound right.