Hi rnail,

The Steeda sport springs are stiffer than the stock springs and will noticably reduce your body roll. Try the Steeda sport springs,D-Specs and the other parts in the basic setup I suggested above first before installing a pair of anti-roll bars. The basic setup will give you the most handling and grip for the least amount of moneyand no increase in NVH andalso offers improved ride over the stock suspension setup when adjusted for comfort.

Installing a larger than stock front anti-roll bar without adding a larger rear anti-roll bar will make the stock or even modified car understeer even more than it already does. If you add a front bar you must add a rear bar or the handling imbalance will hurt your handling performance and grip. Larger more effective anti-roll bars can increase ride harshness and if you install stiff mounts for the anti-roll bars this becomes more obvious as does the thrum over grooved and rough surfaces. If you add an anti-roll bar you should add it at the rear first to help balance the understeer in the stock chassis. If you install a sport spring kit and want toadd an anti-roll baron the rear axle use a smaller bar likeEibach'santi-roll bar instead of thelarger rear bars likea GT500 or Steeda rearCompetition bar.

Steeda's regularsport springs are only very slightly stiffer about3%or so than the Ultralights andthere is little if anydifference in ride that I've felt. I have driven in cars with both springs and have not really noticed any difference in ride that I can really point to and say gee they ride a lot better. There may be a slight difference but nothing really noticable. So it's up to you but thestandard Steeda sport springs won't make or break your car's ride.

HTH!

 

Hi likemike99,

I like the stronger"L-arm" design, better bushings and larger, stronger ball joints of the GT500 "L-arms." The stock S197 ball joints are smallish and weak and IMO will no doubt be a source of probems on our cars with any mileage and rough roads or when used in a performance application. I prefer the weld-in LCA relocation brackets because they are lighter and stronger and present fewer fasteners to have to check.

You only want to installLCA relocation brackets if you lower the car or you seriously drag race the car and need the ability to adjust your IC for added grip while on the drag strip. LCA relocation brackets can cause issues with ground clearance on many automated car wash systems. If you don't really needLCA relocation brackets I suggest most folkspass on them. LCA relocation brackets do nothing to reduce the cause of wheel hop. Wheel hop is caused by thesoft bushings in the UCA and LCA's loosing control of the rear axle. This loss of controlsets upan oscillation between the bushings and the tires as the bushingsallow the axle to move,then recenteronly toloose control again over and over and over. Thesolution is to install bushings that do not allow this loss ofaxle control to happen but this would make for a nasty ride and harsh loudnoisey cabin which is why they use rubber bushings to isolate theUCA and LCA's from the chassis.

The most hightly stressed of the three control arms in the S197 chassis is the UCA for several reasons butlargely due to the fact that it has themost mechanical advantageover the axle with the least amount of bushing control an the worst geometry. This is why the UCA isthe most effective control arm toupgrade while minimizing the increase in NVH to the cabin. But for most folks wheel hop is not a problem especially if they have lowered their car and have not installed LCA relocation brackets. For most folksthe UCA/LCA replacements are needless and offer no advantage over the stock UCA and LCA's in a daily driver car. But if you are serious about suspension performance thenyes they are a very valuable item to install once you have corrected the rear axle geometry changes due to lowering or if you drag race the car.

For agood driver that loves a great handling chassis and knows the difference a Panhard bar is worth more to the handling of the chassis then LCA relocation bracets are even on a lowered chassis.At the rearof the S197 chassis the stock Panhard bar and the Panhard bar support brace are the first items to replaceand should be upgraded at the sametime as performance springs and dampers. These suggestions arefor aroad car or a road course oriented suspension setup. On a drag oriented car the Panhard bar is not quiteas important but still needs at least firmer bushings installed.

HTH!

 

Does anyone else have stiff ride quality with the Steeda sport springs and Tokico's? That is my setup and I feel uncomfortable jolts when going over small imperfections in the road (manhole covers, etc). What are people setting their Tokico's to? I've tried various settings and can't seem to find any that smooth out these bumps.

 

Hi Jim,

That's your 20" hoops andlow profilesidewalls talking to you. Or did you get some more normal sized 17"-18" wheels and tires yet?

If you are on 17"'s or 18"'s start by checking your tire pressures. On 17"'s and 18"'s you needsomewhere around32-35psi all around to start. Most people on 17"-18" wheels and tires find the D-Specs are getting too soft when set any softer than about 4 turns out from full hard on Eibach Pro-Kit springs butthe average happy point seems to be in the 3-4turn range.

HTH!



Cheers!

 

Yup I got 18s on there now, running 32psi all around (gotta update my pic). I found a happy setting today with 5 turns out in front, 4 in the rear. This seemed to significantly improve the rear hops, and at the same time provide all around comfort.

 

F1Fan

Do you know if one can remove the factory bump stops if one installs a UCA with a bump stop. I have been corresponding back and forth with jmsurpri on another postand hethinks he might be hittingthe factorybump stops and that it might be a contributing factor to his ride quality issue. stangsuspension.com did recommend that to him that he should go with an aftermarket UCA.

Best Regards


[IMG]local://upfiles/71338/A40578D380BB4EFBADE539436FE04F41.jpg[/IMG]

 

Hi PowerHitter,

The O.E. factory elastomer bumpstops come off with just two fasteners buthe should not remove or modify the nosecone ofhis axle mounted bumpstops! Unless of course heis willing to accept the possibility of frame and/or axle damage along withthe possibility of getting into an accident due to the evil handling that will result when the axle tubes hit the frame rails. He shouldnot removehis bumpstops, this is a serious error on his part! The O.E. bumpstops are designed to intercept the frame rails and start decellerating the axle as soon as possible to prevent sudden changes in tire loadingwhich is what causessudden unpredicable handling problems when a car's suspension suddenly goes fully solid. He has other problems in his chassis that are the cause of his handling and rideissues.

The UCA with pinion snubber is not the solution to his problems and does in no way replace the axle mounted bumpstops. There is no reason to start replacing parts *****-nilly trying to solve a problem. Find and resolve the root cause of the problem before you go making new problems by installing more aftermarket suspension parts!

Cheers!

 

Yes you are right it's not a good idea to completely remove the bump stops. I'm finding through trial and error though that there doesn't appear to be a very good compromise. If I set the rear shocks soft to smooth out the ride, I think I'm hitting the bump stops and it's causing a very jolting ride. If I set the rear shocks to hard to try to avoid hitting the bump stops, the jolts are improved, but the ride is too stiff, so there's a lot of up and down movement with the undulations of the road.
I will try more settings but I'm thinking that I'm running out of ideas, and will probably go back to stock springs eventually..

 

F1Fan, I know they do not render the panhard baradjustable, but what do you think of FRPP's pan hard bar bushings as opposed to a new bar? My car (08 on order, but I'm obsessively planning mods)will be an (aggresively driven) daily driver that might see occassional (rare) track time. I'm not into drag racing. I plan on either Steeda Comp springs or H&R Race springs and D-Specs (yes, I know driveability will be reduced, but I'm never one to compromise, as anyone who has seen my heavily modded R1 (also used as a daily driver for two years) would know). Like the OP, I note that Ford Racing does not make any changes to the LCA's or panhard bar in their suspension kits and I've talked directly to Ford Racing and the local dealership's service department and both say that the changes to rear end geometry are minimal. I do recognize, however, the benefits of greater stiffness in the bushings. Of course, for the money, I could just buy an aftermarket adj panhard bar and brace for cheaper than what FRPP wants for the bushings. On a related note, how important is it to make the PHB adjustments and control arm adjustments right away? I assume I can do springs/dampers and swaybars first, then PHB and LCA's later if need be. Thanks for the help, you're a wealth of information!

 

Hi lqdslvr,

First let me say I'm here to help when I can. When I first started playing with real cars I got a lot help from some interesting characters I methanging out onMulhollandback in the day. So in the spirit of theirgifts to me I try tohelp others in the same way.The amazing thing is thatnow we can ask and answermuch farther andfaster via the intenet and this has toraise the general level of suspension knowledge and grow the sport and hobbylike it cold never have been done back in theolden days. Back then it was all hands ontrial and erroras there were none of the commonly found books on cars with the level of acurate fundamental suspensioninformation we have available today. Heck you can go on-line and buy suspension software that can calculate a near perfect model your chassis geometry based on your static measurements and allow you to findgeometry issues to explore that may be holding your chassis back. A few of these suspension programscan eve make suggestionsto correct the problem you present!

The FRPP Panhard bar bushings for the FR500C are much firmer but not as firm as the poly bushings used in aftermarket Panhard bars. This is good and bad, good for lower NVH which is really minimal with poly Panhard bar bushings, bad because you get less corning feel and rear axle feedback which is the key for driving the S197 chassis out of a corner quickly. The prices shown on theFRPP websiteare high, you can usually get 15%-30% off with a national or regionalMustang club membership at participating Ford dealership parts counters. But it does seem that $260 for a couple of hard rubber bushings and steel sleeves is high for what you get don't it?

But why even consider the FRPP bushings? For that kind of money you can buy an adjustable Steeda Panhard bar and the matching Heavy Duty Panhard bar brace which is a superior quality partdue toSteeda's parts being made from much stiffer and stronger chrome-moly alloy tubingnotcheaper, heavier and weakermild steel DOM tubing.

Steeda's Competition springswork just fine on the street and the ride is not really much different than stock if you have D-Spec dampers installed. The Steeda Competition springs havethe sameworking spring rate as the Eiback Pro-Kit springs which are exactly the samesprings thatFRPP buys and sells as their own sport springs. The Steeda and Eibach Pro-Kit/FRPP sport springshave been sold by theboatload to mustang owners for two years now withoutmany problems in terms of fit and ride. The Eibach Pro-Kit springs are also the springs used in every Shelby GT Coupe, Hertz GT-HCoupe and Convertable.The difference between the Steeda and Eibach springs isthe way the springs are designed.Eibach's spring designis aprogressive rate designcompared with Steeda'slinear or straight rate design springs. The onlyway to get a higher rate spring off the shelfis to go to an Eibach Sportline sport spring kit which is has about a 50lb. higher spring rate in front and 35-40lb. higher spring rate at the rear.The problem is that Sportline springs ride heightis justrediculouslylow, way too low to use evenon the track due tothe almost non-existent rear axle travel wih this spring set. You could raise the ride height with spring insulators, spacers ormodify your front struts and rear axle mounts with an adjustable spring perchbut all of these would require some fabrication work and a bitof engineering to besucessfull. The Sportline springs are too lowfor serious racing use not for their spring rates but for thefact that the extreme lowering destroys the front and rear suspension geometry and th amount of chassis modification needed to get the roll centers and instant centers back to useable measurementswould bevery expensive and probably not allowedunder most of the current racing rules except in the classes where the S197 wouldbe at a major disadvantage due to the limited power to weight ratio and relatively small tires that fit the S197chassis.

Alternately you can make the jump to acoilover front/adjustable rear spring seatsetup as ofered by Progressive Technology (propriatary custom racingdampers that can be revalved and rebuilt easily and cheaply), Ground Control (uses special double adjustableKoni Sport and Koni racing dampers with custom fabricated strut housing and adjustable rear perch), both of these are entry level racing suspension components and use commonly available Eibach 2.5" or 2.0" I.D. race springs. There are a couple of street oriented coilover kits that are similar but none of them are race level quality, rebuildable or double adjustable. KW variant 3 is worth considering but the cost is rather high for a rather limited street suspension kit and Eibach sells a non-adjustable coilover kit that does not take normal 2" or 2.5" springs. For the money IMO the best street performance suspension is still conventional struts with sport springs. The combination of either the D-Spec double adjustable dampers or the new Koni Sport single adjustable dampers along withEibach Pro-Kit springs or Steeda Competition springs will be the most durable best bang for the buckcore suspension available. For some reason (I can't imagine why), Steeda's Competition springs are $100 more than the regular sport springs. Also know that the best strut bearing mounts are theSteeda adjustable street bearing mounts with up to 2 degrees of camber adjustment. I have a set and they are much better than the stock strut bearings and don't pop or click like even the newer upgraded O.E. strut bearings do afer a few thousand miles. I just got tired of spending $50 every time they failor I take my struts apart to play with the front suspension of my car. the cost ofreplacing all of the suspenion fasteners was already too high and adding an extra $50 for a pair strut bearings was pissing me off. The Steeda strut bearingsalso add a very precise feeling