Tightening lugs
09-04-2007, 05:11 PM
#11
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Tightening lugs
ORIGINAL: steelcomp
That's not the right way to tighten lug nuts, or any other critical fastener, no matter how many times you did it. Any reputable tire shop you go to these days either uses torque limiting sockets or a torque wrench. Besides the fact that it's the right way to do it, their liability demands it.
You and your family are obviously free to do what you want, but IMO to advise someone in the manner you have is irresponsible and wrong
That's not the right way to tighten lug nuts, or any other critical fastener, no matter how many times you did it. Any reputable tire shop you go to these days either uses torque limiting sockets or a torque wrench. Besides the fact that it's the right way to do it, their liability demands it.
You and your family are obviously free to do what you want, but IMO to advise someone in the manner you have is irresponsible and wrong
Thank you for saying this for me! I'm usually the hard-*** about safety here and you beat me to it! I try to make as much use of air tools as possiblein my own garage but have the torque set to the lowest settings and always use a torque wrench for all important fasteners lug nuts included. As a matter of fact I like torque wrenches so much I havefour of them! I know itsounds nutsand my hot rod and carbuddies allharrass me about it but I drive too fast to want to rely on guesswork. I just don't want to take any more chances than I have to and if it take a couple of extra minutes to get the fasteners all torqued down right so be it. I work on cars for the love of cars, things automotive and doing a job right. Askanybody who I've installed suspension for, I freely share the beer the lastguy brought over, won't hurry a joband always use a torque wrench after agun or air ratchet.
Cheers!
09-04-2007, 05:25 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 412
RE: Tightening lugs
I don't do much car work so I don't have any air tools or stuff like that. But from what I have read I should be fine as long as I get myself a good torque wrench and tighten to 100 ft/lbs. Pleas correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, thanks for all the help.
09-04-2007, 06:38 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,471
RE: Tightening lugs
ORIGINAL: rmssch89
I don't do much car work so I don't have any air tools or stuff like that. But from what I have read I should be fine as long as I get myself a good torque wrench and tighten to 100 ft/lbs. Pleas correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, thanks for all the help.
I don't do much car work so I don't have any air tools or stuff like that. But from what I have read I should be fine as long as I get myself a good torque wrench and tighten to 100 ft/lbs. Pleas correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, thanks for all the help.
Exactly, just use a star pattern when tightening and take at least two steps to achive your target torque and you are golden!
Look what I found, not exactly for a Mustang but 100% applicable except for the torque values. CLICK ME!
Cheers!
09-05-2007, 11:34 PM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 220
RE: Tightening lugs
Steelcomp:
Iflug wrenches exposed auto manufacturers to undo product liability then they would not come with new cars. To everyone on this post, it is absolutely okay to use the lug wrench that came with your car to tighten your lug nuts. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.I have literally changed tens of thousands of tires and guess what, I have never had one fall off, lol.
As far as torque limiting sockets go, Irecently had a national distributor of tires install four new tires on my Mustang (these dayI am the CFO of an international manufacturing company, not a tire changer) and guess what, all the lugs were over tightened. It isstandard practice, better tight thansorry, if you want to talk about liability.
F1Fan mentions the star pattern. This is important when you mount a rim. The rim must be flush to the mounting surface before your start to torque down the rim. Once the rim is flush with the mounting surface, torque down two lugs, one on each side of the rim.Make sure the lugs are centered in the hole andcheck the rim again to make sure everything is flush.Then torque down the rest of the lugs and re-torque them all again.
Other than for race applications I have never seen anyone use a torque wrench to tightenlug nuts. Maybe if you spend a couple thousand dollars for rims and tires, the shop might break out the torque wrench, to make you think you are getting extra value.
Again, as I said in my last post, if you are uncomfortable with changing a tire, seek professional help.
Be Safe
[IMG]local://upfiles/63299/E8A77274BEB64257AFEFA09DD7F30963.jpg[/IMG]
Iflug wrenches exposed auto manufacturers to undo product liability then they would not come with new cars. To everyone on this post, it is absolutely okay to use the lug wrench that came with your car to tighten your lug nuts. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.I have literally changed tens of thousands of tires and guess what, I have never had one fall off, lol.
As far as torque limiting sockets go, Irecently had a national distributor of tires install four new tires on my Mustang (these dayI am the CFO of an international manufacturing company, not a tire changer) and guess what, all the lugs were over tightened. It isstandard practice, better tight thansorry, if you want to talk about liability.
F1Fan mentions the star pattern. This is important when you mount a rim. The rim must be flush to the mounting surface before your start to torque down the rim. Once the rim is flush with the mounting surface, torque down two lugs, one on each side of the rim.Make sure the lugs are centered in the hole andcheck the rim again to make sure everything is flush.Then torque down the rest of the lugs and re-torque them all again.
Other than for race applications I have never seen anyone use a torque wrench to tightenlug nuts. Maybe if you spend a couple thousand dollars for rims and tires, the shop might break out the torque wrench, to make you think you are getting extra value.
Again, as I said in my last post, if you are uncomfortable with changing a tire, seek professional help.
Be Safe
[IMG]local://upfiles/63299/E8A77274BEB64257AFEFA09DD7F30963.jpg[/IMG]
09-06-2007, 12:11 AM
#16
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
RE: Tightening lugs
ORIGINAL: dseid2
Steelcomp:
Iflug wrenches exposed auto manufacturers to undo product liability then they would not come with new cars. To everyone on this post, it is absolutely okay to use the lug wrench that came with your car to tighten your lug nuts. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.I have literally changed tens of thousands of tires and guess what, I have never had one fall off, lol.
As far as torque limiting sockets go, Irecently had a national distributor of tires install four new tires on my Mustang (these dayI am the CFO of an international manufacturing company, not a tire changer) and guess what, all the lugs were over tightened. It isstandard practice, better tight thansorry, if you want to talk about liability.
F1Fan mentions the star pattern. This is important when you mount a rim. The rim must be flush to the mounting surface before your start to torque down the rim. Once the rim is flush with the mounting surface, torque down two lugs, one on each side of the rim.Make sure the lugs are centered in the hole andcheck the rim again to make sure everything is flush.Then torque down the rest of the lugs and re-torque them all again.
Other than for race applications I have never seen anyone use a torque wrench to tightenlug nuts. Maybe if you spend a couple thousand dollars for rims and tires, the shop might break out the torque wrench, to make you think you are getting extra value.
Again, as I said in my last post, if you are uncomfortable with changing a tire, seek professional help.
Be Safe
[IMG]local://upfiles/63299/E8A77274BEB64257AFEFA09DD7F30963.jpg[/IMG]
Steelcomp:
Iflug wrenches exposed auto manufacturers to undo product liability then they would not come with new cars. To everyone on this post, it is absolutely okay to use the lug wrench that came with your car to tighten your lug nuts. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.I have literally changed tens of thousands of tires and guess what, I have never had one fall off, lol.
As far as torque limiting sockets go, Irecently had a national distributor of tires install four new tires on my Mustang (these dayI am the CFO of an international manufacturing company, not a tire changer) and guess what, all the lugs were over tightened. It isstandard practice, better tight thansorry, if you want to talk about liability.
F1Fan mentions the star pattern. This is important when you mount a rim. The rim must be flush to the mounting surface before your start to torque down the rim. Once the rim is flush with the mounting surface, torque down two lugs, one on each side of the rim.Make sure the lugs are centered in the hole andcheck the rim again to make sure everything is flush.Then torque down the rest of the lugs and re-torque them all again.
Other than for race applications I have never seen anyone use a torque wrench to tightenlug nuts. Maybe if you spend a couple thousand dollars for rims and tires, the shop might break out the torque wrench, to make you think you are getting extra value.
Again, as I said in my last post, if you are uncomfortable with changing a tire, seek professional help.
Be Safe
[IMG]local://upfiles/63299/E8A77274BEB64257AFEFA09DD7F30963.jpg[/IMG]
It's notabout racing, either, it'a just about the difference between right and wrong. Your way is dead wrong, no matter what you say, or how many times you've done it.
Don't make any more of a fool of yourself than you already have.
09-06-2007, 07:05 AM
#17
6th Gear Member
RE: Tightening lugs
Bottom line:
[*]
Use a torque wrench and follow a 2 or 3 stage sequence using a 'star' or similar pattern.[/align][*]
If a shop uses an impact wrench (with NO torque limiting socket), DO NOT GO BACK![/align][*]
ALWAYS check the torque on your lug nuts after the first 50-100 miles.[/align][/ol]
Rick
[sm=smiley34.gif]
[*]
Use a torque wrench and follow a 2 or 3 stage sequence using a 'star' or similar pattern.[/align][*]
If a shop uses an impact wrench (with NO torque limiting socket), DO NOT GO BACK![/align][*]
ALWAYS check the torque on your lug nuts after the first 50-100 miles.[/align][/ol]
Rick
[sm=smiley34.gif]
09-06-2007, 12:25 PM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 220
RE: Tightening lugs
steelcomp:
Get a life. Ifevery tire shop you have dealt with for the last 30 years uses atorque wrench to finish tightening the lug nuts than you have most likely been getting ripped off on what youhavebeen paying for your tires and/or the shop has no business.I have been around this industry for 48 year and no one, I repeat no one, uses a torque wrench in a high volume tire shop to tighten lugs. Period ! I can assure you it is absolutely not necessary. The only standardwheels are tightened to is that don't fall off. Think about it,every car manufacturer has a different torque spec for their lugs and you want people to believe that they train $7.00 an hour guys to lookupyourcars specto make sure your cars lugs are tightened to the right spec with a torque wrench. You obviously don't know much about tires or business. It not happening.Not only was my family in the tire recapping business for 40 years, as a teenager I worked for several national tire dealers and no one 30 year ago trainedto, or set a standard of using a torque wrench to finish tightening lugs, nor do they train to, or set that standard today.Maybe for a backyard mechanic it is necessary to use a torque wrench asyou probablydon't have a feel for what isloose, tight and over tight. Go ahead,make yourself happy with your torque wrench, but don't tell a guy who wants to paint his calipers that he needs a torque wrench to put his tires back on.
Get a life. Ifevery tire shop you have dealt with for the last 30 years uses atorque wrench to finish tightening the lug nuts than you have most likely been getting ripped off on what youhavebeen paying for your tires and/or the shop has no business.I have been around this industry for 48 year and no one, I repeat no one, uses a torque wrench in a high volume tire shop to tighten lugs. Period ! I can assure you it is absolutely not necessary. The only standardwheels are tightened to is that don't fall off. Think about it,every car manufacturer has a different torque spec for their lugs and you want people to believe that they train $7.00 an hour guys to lookupyourcars specto make sure your cars lugs are tightened to the right spec with a torque wrench. You obviously don't know much about tires or business. It not happening.Not only was my family in the tire recapping business for 40 years, as a teenager I worked for several national tire dealers and no one 30 year ago trainedto, or set a standard of using a torque wrench to finish tightening lugs, nor do they train to, or set that standard today.Maybe for a backyard mechanic it is necessary to use a torque wrench asyou probablydon't have a feel for what isloose, tight and over tight. Go ahead,make yourself happy with your torque wrench, but don't tell a guy who wants to paint his calipers that he needs a torque wrench to put his tires back on.
09-06-2007, 01:03 PM
#19
6th Gear Member
RE: Tightening lugs
"The only standardwheels are tightened to is that don't fall off."
Dseid2, you're not touching my car. 30 years ago you didn't see the volume of aluminum wheels that you do today, plus wheel components could take more punishment than they do today. And as far as high volume tire shops are concerned, EVERY shop I've EVER dealt with (considering I've logged over 1,000,000 miles over the past 5 vehicles in the last 25 years alone) have used torque limiting sockets or have torqued my car's lug nuts by hand. I realize you don't have to be dead-to-nutz to the manufacturer's stated torque value but I'll be damned if some bull is going to jackhammer the lugs on one of my vehicles with an air wrench or blindly hand wrench the living chit out of them
Rick
[sm=smiley34.gif]
Dseid2, you're not touching my car. 30 years ago you didn't see the volume of aluminum wheels that you do today, plus wheel components could take more punishment than they do today. And as far as high volume tire shops are concerned, EVERY shop I've EVER dealt with (considering I've logged over 1,000,000 miles over the past 5 vehicles in the last 25 years alone) have used torque limiting sockets or have torqued my car's lug nuts by hand. I realize you don't have to be dead-to-nutz to the manufacturer's stated torque value but I'll be damned if some bull is going to jackhammer the lugs on one of my vehicles with an air wrench or blindly hand wrench the living chit out of them
Rick
[sm=smiley34.gif]
09-07-2007, 02:56 AM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tri Cities, TN
Posts: 452
RE: Tightening lugs
Hey Mr. CEO,
I'm finding it hard to take you seriously here.
I would be way more confident that I was getting my money's worthfrom a company that took the extra time to torque my lugs than your half-*** company that wouldn't bother...I'd be wondering what else you didn't bother doing while you were ripping me off.Maybe you can explain how your family being in the tire recapping business makes you an expert on bolt torque? Are you an engineer? Maybe your exalted self congratulating position as a CEO (read BFD!!) makes you a master mechanic? I'd bet a week's pay you don't even know the purpose of torquing a fastener, or how to do it properly.
Next thing you'll be telling us is that it's not necessary to check the air in our tires, and that the recommended pressures aren't important... just fill em up till they look round. LMFAO!!!
You go right ahead and keep responding to this...you're just looking moreignorant and foolishwith each paragraph.
I'm finding it hard to take you seriously here.
I would be way more confident that I was getting my money's worthfrom a company that took the extra time to torque my lugs than your half-*** company that wouldn't bother...I'd be wondering what else you didn't bother doing while you were ripping me off.Maybe you can explain how your family being in the tire recapping business makes you an expert on bolt torque? Are you an engineer? Maybe your exalted self congratulating position as a CEO (read BFD!!) makes you a master mechanic? I'd bet a week's pay you don't even know the purpose of torquing a fastener, or how to do it properly.
Next thing you'll be telling us is that it's not necessary to check the air in our tires, and that the recommended pressures aren't important... just fill em up till they look round. LMFAO!!!
You go right ahead and keep responding to this...you're just looking moreignorant and foolishwith each paragraph.
ORIGINAL: dseid2
steelcomp:
Get a life. Ifevery tire shop you have dealt with for the last 30 years uses atorque wrench to finish tightening the lug nuts than you have most likely been getting ripped off on what youhavebeen paying for your tires and/or the shop has no business.I have been around this industry for 48 year and no one, I repeat no one, uses a torque wrench in a high volume tire shop to tighten lugs. Period ! I can assure you it is absolutely not necessary. The only standardwheels are tightened to is that don't fall off. Think about it,every car manufacturer has a different torque spec for their lugs and you want people to believe that they train $7.00 an hour guys to lookupyourcars specto make sure your cars lugs are tightened to the right spec with a torque wrench. You obviously don't know much about tires or business. It not happening.Not only was my family in the tire recapping business for 40 years, as a teenager I worked for several national tire dealers and no one 30 year ago trainedto, or set a standard of using a torque wrench to finish tightening lugs, nor do they train to, or set that standard today.Maybe for a backyard mechanic it is necessary to use a torque wrench asyou probablydon't have a feel for what isloose, tight and over tight. Go ahead,make yourself happy with your torque wrench, but don't tell a guy who wants to paint his calipers that he needs a torque wrench to put his tires back on.
steelcomp:
Get a life. Ifevery tire shop you have dealt with for the last 30 years uses atorque wrench to finish tightening the lug nuts than you have most likely been getting ripped off on what youhavebeen paying for your tires and/or the shop has no business.I have been around this industry for 48 year and no one, I repeat no one, uses a torque wrench in a high volume tire shop to tighten lugs. Period ! I can assure you it is absolutely not necessary. The only standardwheels are tightened to is that don't fall off. Think about it,every car manufacturer has a different torque spec for their lugs and you want people to believe that they train $7.00 an hour guys to lookupyourcars specto make sure your cars lugs are tightened to the right spec with a torque wrench. You obviously don't know much about tires or business. It not happening.Not only was my family in the tire recapping business for 40 years, as a teenager I worked for several national tire dealers and no one 30 year ago trainedto, or set a standard of using a torque wrench to finish tightening lugs, nor do they train to, or set that standard today.Maybe for a backyard mechanic it is necessary to use a torque wrench asyou probablydon't have a feel for what isloose, tight and over tight. Go ahead,make yourself happy with your torque wrench, but don't tell a guy who wants to paint his calipers that he needs a torque wrench to put his tires back on.