UrS4

Norm,

There is another Vogtland spring for the GT that doesn't have as low a drop. only 0.8 inch front and rear while the other set drops the front 1.0 and the rear 1.2 inches.

Margarita Girl

Yes, the Vogtland Leveling Springs .8/1.2 for Mustang FT 2005+

Sam Strano

Rates are slightly different, mostly in front. But so are lengths because for instance a GT500 weights a big more than a V-6, or a GT.

UrS4

So if one wanted a modest drop but a stiffer rate in a GT. Would it be smart to get the vogtland springs for the GT500? Is that the stiffest vogtland spring for the S197?

Sam Strano

Yes it's stiffest, drop should be a little less given the lighter car, but not as little as say a set of H&R Sports. Bear in mind that the differences here are SMALL in rate between the Vogtland springs. I wouldn't try and get too fancy.

You'll note that we have a two (and soon to be a third) pre-packaged kit from Vogtland on our website. One has Koni's, the other has D-specs. Those kits only come wtih the "normal" GT spring, not the GT500. If you opt for that we have to get the springs and shocks separately and that costs a bit more.

UrS4

So if I was set on getting Steeda Competition springs, would you say they are stiffer, comparable, softer than going with a Vogtland GT500 spring for my GT. They are both linear or quasi-linear to my knowledge.

Sam Strano

Do you know the Steeda rates? You are asking a lot of questions that are, quite frankly somewhat hypothetical. You can ask "what if" forever. What you need to do it talk with someone you trust, be it me (have no idea if you do, or even know anything about me), or someone else with a background and (important) can explain what's up with different parts. A lot of parts can work, it's often more about the combination of that part teamed with the other parts. I'm not the type that tells a customer he must dump everything he has that I don't like. Sometimes I do if it sucks, but if it's not terrible, or workable I work with it.

Further, how do you decide on what's stiff enough? Too stiff, too soft? There are few absolutes, and I makes these judgement from the way the car drives, and what the camber curves and such are like. I DON'T think that stiffer is always better, and have a bit ofrep. for not running nearly as stiff as some others.

UrS4

Hmm . . . I wasn't trying to be vague but yes most of my questions and many others on here are "what ifs?". From many other respectable posters on this forum that sing your praises, yes, I trust your judgement and value your opinion regarding suspensions, road racing, etc. AndI do remember from another of your posts you don't give out specifics for free. Makes sense, I don't doubt your knowledge regarding what works and what doesn't. I also understand that you run a business and that you may be afraid of giving away all your expertise freely and getting no return on all your hard work, as Mr. X on the forum will just take all your advice and buy the parts from the cheapest vendors and have a well set up car that meets their needs and you see none of Mr. X's money. I can tell you I'm not that way and I have found in the mustang world, customer service and expertise come above cutting corners and saving pennies.

However, most of the information that I have gathered regarding springs and their rates have been through these forums, beit hearsay or factual. What I have heard is that Steeda Competition springs are the "stiffest" linear rate "street" spring made for the S197 but I don't know the actual rates. You have mentioned that the H&R sport springs offer the least amount of drop and are the "softest" springs that are not specifically for drag setups. And again, I don't know the actual rates. Vogtland springs claim lighter weight with increased stiffness. Other web sites claim this and say they are up to ~X% stiffer than the stock spring, with rates of 152-250lb front and 160-225lb rear. Hell, I don't even know the stock rates but I would guess around 225lb front and 200lb rear as the few aftermarket springs that claim 10% stiffer or more are in the 250lb rate. Maximum motorsport has told me that their starter sport box kit for the S197 has H&R springs that are 400lb front and 260lb rear with the option of going much stiffer. However, that setup is a coilover design and may not be directly comparable to stock spring rates, IDK.

If you would like to talk in person instead, you could shoot me a pm or ask that I call your place of business and have a chat, that's fine too. Or you could merely say which spring is stiffer based on your knowledge with a simple yes or no. Granted that doesn't sound like your style so getting in touch with you may be the most efficient way.

As far as when is it too stiff, I don't know what is "too" stiff. I know that I think my car handles like a bouncy wallowing pig compared to other cars I have driven. This could all be solved by better shocks, you have sold me on the Koni adj. I ran that brand in my Audi and it is a name I know and trust vs Tokico. I have heard otherswith various mustang models run a much stiffer setup and as long as the shocks are matched to the spring, the car doesn't not ride like crap. It points to reason that if the shocks do most of the ride control that running a stiffer spring with a shock that has a large range of compression and rebound adjustability would be better than using a softer spring that bottoms out on the bumpstop continuously.

I hope you're not offended by my post as that is not my intention. I am merely trying to get a better grasp on springs and shocks and how they work and what the mustang experts think in terms of how and where the suspension can be better. With the disclaimer that these changes are geared towards functional road racing applications rather than 1/4 mile or cosmetic.

Thanks Sam for your help and advice.

UrS4

Sam Strano

I'm not offended, but there are not simple answers that everyone agrees on, and the data isn't always as it seems. A lot of what I do it trial and error (read testing) because I firmly feel you can't engineer a perfect car by numbers alone. If so, a computer would formulate a setup for say a race-car, and you'd never touch it. We damned well know that never happens, and individual drivers even like different things from their cars. I don't know the H&R Sport rate either. What I do it know is H&R doesn't tend to do things badly too often. And those springs are just not as low as many others. Adding to that, I know the rear bumpstop from Ford is not ideal, and cutting it is no solution. You'll always hit, and I'd rather do it soooner than later. Cutting it makes it more abrupt when you do hit it, but as it is most spring sets let you get onto the stop just too fast and too hard, especially when teamed with shocks that can't help slow the movement.

I like to help folks learn, and frankly I prefer that folks have an idea what's what to make good decisionsand I do my best to help you with that. I can't, and generally won't evergivesomeone a "must do" list becausethere are variables. I call it customerservice, you can think of it as tech support (which is why Ihave a dedicated tech phone line).

BTW, stock springs, areroughly 154 front, 131 rear. Yet, the car drives "firmer" than what folks would think. Again, spring rate alone isn't everything. Wheel rates, bar rates, shock damping, and about a million other things play in as well.

In all honesty, don't rely on the internet to truly LEARN.You can getsomegood background information to be sure, but you can also get bad info as well. But more to the point, therearen't,IMHO, very many absolutes that make me comfortableenough to get online and say "you should do exactly this". And what's more I've been on various forums forwhile, and I havemet and talked withothers on those forums.In reality I know they sometimes have no clue, or can't back uptheir talk, but they do talk (or maybe type?) agoodgame when they really haveno idea.

Norm Peterson

Thanks again, Sam. I'd guessed they were perhaps 10 - 15lb/in or so stiffer than that based on the few available numbers. I agree on the commentary, though -any of those values definitely look "light" in view of the behavior of your car at Ripken.


Norm