What do you think?
4th Gear Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,313
From: CA
RE: What do you think?
ORIGINAL: Sam Strano
I'm not offended, but there are not simple answers that everyone agrees on, and the data isn't always as it seems. A lot of what I do it trial and error (read testing) because I firmly feel you can't engineer a perfect car by numbers alone. If so, a computer would formulate a setup for say a race-car, and you'd never touch it. We damned well know that never happens, and individual drivers even like different things from their cars. I don't know the H&R Sport rate either. What I do it know is H&R doesn't tend to do things badly too often. And those springs are just not as low as many others. Adding to that, I know the rear bumpstop from Ford is not ideal, and cutting it is no solution. You'll always hit, and I'd rather do it soooner than later. Cutting it makes it more abrupt when you do hit it, but as it is most spring sets let you get onto the stop just too fast and too hard, especially when teamed with shocks that can't help slow the movement.
I like to help folks learn, and frankly I prefer that folks have an idea what's what to make good decisionsand I do my best to help you with that. I can't, and generally won't evergivesomeone a "must do" list becausethere are variables. I call it customerservice, you can think of it as tech support (which is why Ihave a dedicated tech phone line).
BTW, stock springs, areroughly 154 front, 131 rear. Yet, the car drives "firmer" than what folks would think. Again, spring rate alone isn't everything. Wheel rates, bar rates, shock damping, and about a million other things play in as well.
In all honesty, don't rely on the internet to truly LEARN.You can getsomegood background information to be sure, but you can also get bad info as well. But more to the point, therearen't,IMHO, very many absolutes that make me comfortableenough to get online and say "you should do exactly this". And what's more I've been on various forums forwhile, and I havemet and talked withothers on those forums.In reality I know they sometimes have no clue, or can't back uptheir talk, but they do talk (or maybe type?) agoodgame when they really haveno idea.
I'm not offended, but there are not simple answers that everyone agrees on, and the data isn't always as it seems. A lot of what I do it trial and error (read testing) because I firmly feel you can't engineer a perfect car by numbers alone. If so, a computer would formulate a setup for say a race-car, and you'd never touch it. We damned well know that never happens, and individual drivers even like different things from their cars. I don't know the H&R Sport rate either. What I do it know is H&R doesn't tend to do things badly too often. And those springs are just not as low as many others. Adding to that, I know the rear bumpstop from Ford is not ideal, and cutting it is no solution. You'll always hit, and I'd rather do it soooner than later. Cutting it makes it more abrupt when you do hit it, but as it is most spring sets let you get onto the stop just too fast and too hard, especially when teamed with shocks that can't help slow the movement.
I like to help folks learn, and frankly I prefer that folks have an idea what's what to make good decisionsand I do my best to help you with that. I can't, and generally won't evergivesomeone a "must do" list becausethere are variables. I call it customerservice, you can think of it as tech support (which is why Ihave a dedicated tech phone line).
BTW, stock springs, areroughly 154 front, 131 rear. Yet, the car drives "firmer" than what folks would think. Again, spring rate alone isn't everything. Wheel rates, bar rates, shock damping, and about a million other things play in as well.
In all honesty, don't rely on the internet to truly LEARN.You can getsomegood background information to be sure, but you can also get bad info as well. But more to the point, therearen't,IMHO, very many absolutes that make me comfortableenough to get online and say "you should do exactly this". And what's more I've been on various forums forwhile, and I havemet and talked withothers on those forums.In reality I know they sometimes have no clue, or can't back uptheir talk, but they do talk (or maybe type?) agoodgame when they really haveno idea.
I appreciate your comments and I get your point. I agree that relying on the internet without talking to and evaluating in person a vendor is taking added risk. I try to use these forums, especially this one, to learn about parts, what questions to ask, and how to better plan changes for mycar. With the hopes that when I do go to the shop or speak to the vendor I'm educated enough so that I don't end up saying, "well, I don't know, whatever you suggest I will go with".
I used to think that whatever I replaced on the car with aftermarket stuff, it had to make the car better. But the more I learn about how individual parts affect others and how they will act together the more concerned I become about not making changes that actually upset the car's handling while cosmetically looking like it is improving it.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
RE: What do you think?
I'm not big on pulling punches. After a long time in the business, and just having bought products myself (not just car parts, but anything), nobody is happy when the result it not what you wanted. And what's worse is when you figure out you were sold a bill of goods. 
In the end, you need to find folks who you trust. And your best defense against crap is to ask questions. I'm honest when I tell you I can't give you every answer. I can only use my background and knowledge to help you decide on things, explain things and/or tell you why I'd do something. I'm not always sure, and if I'm not I'll tend to tell you. I own my company, and don't have a huge company. I also can't find folks to work for me that both know what they are doing, and trustworthy. So we stay small, just family. We make a living and while I could sell bigger ticket items at times, I won't unless we have an actual reason. And the reason why? I'd rather have a customer for life than one for a day.
The only thing I have to offer is really service and support that's the best I can do because I don't have much that most everyone else has too. If the prices are similar, I'd like to think that the knowledge, proven results and bluntness would put me over the top. Seems to work well enough, but I know I've tweaked folks wrong too because I wouldn't just sell them what they wanted because it's not what they needed. I've had folks hang up on me because they couldn't answer my questions. I can live with that, and I don't want those folks as customers. Those are the folks that end up getting something they didn't want (because they didn't know or think about it, or want to find out), and then I end up the bad guy. No thanks.
And over time, I've had to fix a LOT of cars that had "better" parts on them. From what I've seen, I don't think that'd be a hugely common issue in this particularsection of this site. But I thinkit'smore common to find mixed up things in standard S197 section.
In the end, you need to find folks who you trust. And your best defense against crap is to ask questions. I'm honest when I tell you I can't give you every answer. I can only use my background and knowledge to help you decide on things, explain things and/or tell you why I'd do something. I'm not always sure, and if I'm not I'll tend to tell you. I own my company, and don't have a huge company. I also can't find folks to work for me that both know what they are doing, and trustworthy. So we stay small, just family. We make a living and while I could sell bigger ticket items at times, I won't unless we have an actual reason. And the reason why? I'd rather have a customer for life than one for a day.
The only thing I have to offer is really service and support that's the best I can do because I don't have much that most everyone else has too. If the prices are similar, I'd like to think that the knowledge, proven results and bluntness would put me over the top. Seems to work well enough, but I know I've tweaked folks wrong too because I wouldn't just sell them what they wanted because it's not what they needed. I've had folks hang up on me because they couldn't answer my questions. I can live with that, and I don't want those folks as customers. Those are the folks that end up getting something they didn't want (because they didn't know or think about it, or want to find out), and then I end up the bad guy. No thanks.
And over time, I've had to fix a LOT of cars that had "better" parts on them. From what I've seen, I don't think that'd be a hugely common issue in this particularsection of this site. But I thinkit'smore common to find mixed up things in standard S197 section.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
RE: What do you think?
NEED? No. Want? Maybe.
Again, Irun aloweredcar in theShelby, it has no LCA relocation brackets....I couldn't run them if Iwanted to in the class I race, luckily there are no wheelhopissues in it, vs. my stockGT that does (at a stock height).
I wait and see what the car does when lowered. Depending on the reaction we can add them, or maybe somethingelse like bettercontrol arms if the car has any wheelhop issues. Andlowered cars don'tseem to have those issues most times....
Again, Irun aloweredcar in theShelby, it has no LCA relocation brackets....I couldn't run them if Iwanted to in the class I race, luckily there are no wheelhopissues in it, vs. my stockGT that does (at a stock height).
I wait and see what the car does when lowered. Depending on the reaction we can add them, or maybe somethingelse like bettercontrol arms if the car has any wheelhop issues. Andlowered cars don'tseem to have those issues most times....