I have an 06 gt with C&L intake and diablo 93oct tune and slp axleback with hurst shifter. I wanted to improve on my handeling without sacraficing my ride quality. I thought I would do a strut brace rear shock brace and springs but after reading all these posts I do not know what to do. I have found most of these parts on ebay to save some money, that is how I got all my other add ons. Also are the eibach pro springs much different then the steeda springs?

 

1. your intake, tune , mufflers, and shifter don't influence your suspension needs. We don't need to know.

2. use the search function.

 

I think the best thing that you could do to improve handling without sacrificing ride quality would be to get a set of quality dampers (Tokicos, Konis, etc.). That should help the 'wallowing' feeling you get in steering transitions. Don't bother with the strut tower or read shock braces unless you are in it for the blingage.

Changing to a performance and/or lowering spring will impact your ride quality. There are a lot of guys more knowledgeable than I am in this forum that could chime in on your 'Steeda vs. Eibach' question.

 

Hi ZeroIngold,

Welcome to thebest S197 forums on the internet!

So what do youfeel isa problem withyour car's handling?You say you want to not give up any ride quality, does thismean you want your car to ride as well or better and still "handle" better? If you could describewhat you feel are the chassis short comings we would have a better idea of where you should be headed.Don't just rush out and spend money that you may later find you wish you had kept. This modification business is not cheap and spending money for the wrong parts only makesour mod money fund shorter.

Eibach's Pro-Kit Sport springs (also sold by Ford as FRPP Sport Springs) and Steeda Sport springs are very different animals. Eibach Pro-Kit springs reduce the ride height quite a bit more thanSteeda's Sport Springs do. Eibach like a lot of other spring makers uses a progressive spring rate design which means that the springs are designed to increase in rate per inch as they are compressed. Steeda Sport springs are a linear ratespring which means that asthe spring is compressed the amount ofspring rate remains the same. Generally speaking an S197 withlinear rate spring is easier to setup damping rateson given the simpler dampers we have access to. On some high-end race cars with effective aero down force, more complex suspension designsand more advanced multi-way dampers progressive springs can be used very effectively.

For examplesay wehave a stock springwith a static height of7"with the car at rest and the spring will have a total of 4" of travel before topping or bottoming out hard on something in the suspension of frame. Remember, these are just arbitrary numbers selected to make it easy to understand what is going on around here.So let's alsosaywe have a10" tall 100lb linear rate spring standing free without any pressure on the spring. When we compress the spring 1" it will take 100lbof weight to hold it down 1" from the free length of 10" and200lbs. to hold it down 2" fromits 10" free length. This continues on, 3" of compression takes 300lbs. etc. until the coils are in full contact with one another wherethe spring is said to be in coilbind and is in effect a solid piece of steel with no practical movement left. From this we can see that with a 100lb. spring rate the car at rest is exerting 300lbs. on the one spring we are looking atin this example. To compress the carall the way to bottoming on the frame ordamperbody takes 2" more or 500lbs. of weight or pound-force.Do you see, the way the spring reacts is linear and consistent.

Typicallystraightwire progresive lowering spring designusescoilbind to affect a transition tothe higher spring rate. So if we takeanother 10" tall free length spring with a progressiverate lowering design and start to compress it we might see 75lbs. for the first 1" of compression, then 75lbs. for the second 1" of compression and then 100lbs. as the first few close togethercoils start to bind and the springs gets into the working range of the spring. Then we might see the spring rate go to 125lbs. for the next 1"anda sort of creepingincrease as the coils start to bind more for the next 1" of compression. As you can see this new spring will have the car sitting lower because it only has 250PF at the stock 3" of travel and the car is exerting 300PF on this one spring. So the spring will compress addtionally until the spring can apply enough force to support the car at 300PF.So what you are seingis that the progressive spring's effective rate goes up as it is compressed and if we could plot this curve you would see a heel or bend in the rate as the spring transitions to the higher spring rate. The most important thing about designing a progressive rate spring is where you put the heel in the ratecurve when plotted against travel. And that position is critical as you can see as when we reduce the static ride height we also reduce the available travel which means we need to increase spring rate to absorb the sameG-loads as the stock spring travel. Therefore the spring rates must increase significantly to keep the car from bottoming out causing poor handling or loss of control of the car. So lowering a car too much is really bad for rideand handling even if it's done right.

So if you really want to minimally impact your car's ride and still improvehandling feel you should select springs that do not excessively lower the car. In the case of the S197GT the chassis will tolarate about 1"pretty well but if you get much past this you start to pay a pretty heavy price.

So yes, Eibach and Steeda springsare pretty different.

Cheers!

 

I understood most of that. What I do not like about the mustangs handlingis that it rolls excessivly in turns and drives to much in braking and acc. What I was thinking about doing was install a steeda strut tower brace and steeda rear shock tower brace. Also wanted to install springs with a brake duct kit and new pads, rotors, and lines. I want to spend about a grand on brakes and suspension before I get married and money for the car will no be expendable. I am statisfied with my performace as far as the intake, exhaust and shifter. So now basicily I want to be able to hang with evo's and sti's. I don't need to be better but I want to be close to the same. I want to hit all of the aspects of the car with minor mods. I have the 18' mustang polished aluminum rims with 235/35/18 BF Goodrich all season tires. I got those tires because I had to drive it this winter. Which I will not do again. I thought about replacing tose tires with high performence summer tires but did not know if it was worth it on those rims.

 

Hi ZeroIngold,

O.K. now we are getting somewhere, you want to try to reduce brake dive and body roll, well this is simple and hard to do at the same time.When we raise spring rates to reduce the brake dive and body roll we also have to increase the damping rates to controlthe stonger spring to control body and suspension movements. This is veryimportant and most folks don't realize that you really need to change both at the same time or youwillcompromise your ride and handling an have to pay for a second installation when you figure it out because you hate the car's ride and handling because you didn't install the darned adjustable dampersin the first place. You also probably don't want to reduce your ride height too much to avoid some of the more expensive things youwill need to do in order to take full advantage of the lower CG and improved handling response. But this is up to you butif money is an issue don't buy springs that lower the car more than 1".

Strut tower braces front or rear on the S197 coupe chassis are IMO a waste of money, the S197 coupe chassis isstiff enough to notneed an STB or rear shock tower tie bar.On avert the story is different dueto the big hole the factory installs in the roof. With a vert the STB in front andBMR's HD boxed subframe connectorsare a goodchoice though there is somemodification needed to make them fit and still retain the vert's factory spare tire braces.

Wait is that $1K on brakes and $1K on suspension or $1K total for both? If money is an issue and you do not track the car you don't need spindle mount ducts. Just install a set of good pads like Hawk HPS or EBC Yellow "R" compound pads and you will be much happier with the way the car stops when the pads and rotors are hot. Stainless steel lines are very nice option and can improve pedal feel nicely.

If you are just looking for a nice improvement in ride and handling and to improve your brake dive andsquat with a modest ride height drop I suggest you look into Steeda Sport springs, a set of Tokico D-Spec adjustable dampers an Eibach camber bolts. This is the most important part of a good core suspension setup and if youadd one more thing to it (good adjustable Panhard barw/HD Panhard bar brace) you will likely be very happy with the results for a very long time. To get the most out of your car you will also want to use more agressive alignment settings which is why I suggestted the Eibach camber bolts. Start with -1.25 degrees negative camber and0-1/16" total toe-in with the suspensoin and steering "loaded" and see how you like the steeringfeel and handling.

You will be able to better keep up with your buddies in the Evo's and STi's with better tires and the simple suspension changes I mention above. Dry summer performance tires are a must, don't skimp on rubber, buy premium performance tires likeGoodyear Eagle GD-D3's,Pilot Sport,BFG g/Force T/A KDW2, Bridgestone Potenza RE050Aor other similar higher end tires. Look for a tire in a 255/45x18 size for your wheels, no wider or your steering feeland response will get mushy.

HTH!

 

Well I have decieded that to get what I want I may spend more then a thousand, it was for both. I was also wondering if H & R was good or comparable to the Tokico? I did not know I could put 255's on my rims, I just went with the all seasons because they were a great deal at the time and I was gonna see some snow. I already have hawk pads to install but am waiting till my stock ones are done with. My overall plan was to still buy some rotors off of ebay but do not really know what is good for replacing the stock rotors(drilled or sloted). I am considering lines but waiting to get the struts and shocks first with steeda springs. Also thought about the upper strut mounts but you did not mention it in this post. Would I still need LCA's if I get the struts or would I still have the same wheel hop?

 

Drilled & slotted rotors are for show only. They won't measurably improve braking. Get some new take offs if your rotors are worn. Presonally I like the slotted ones, but I won't tell you they are for improved braking.

The upper strut mounts need replacing if they are clunking, but otherwise aren't needed. The camber bolts will take care of the alignment if you drop the car.

I have the Koni adjustables, and on the softest setting they ride smoother and handle a little bit better. You can turn them up if you're willing to give up some ride (which about 99% of people keeping up with STi's would do. )

 

F1Fan, I just learned more about the supsention of the S197 then I ever want to know. I just got rim andIwas think I'll throw on some spring to lower it but I can't do that now.

Could a sway bar be a cheaper way help with body roll? if not, what is a new sway bar good for?

 

Hi ZeroIngold,

H&R is a very well known spring company who sells other people's dampers as accessories to sell more springs. Stick with the D-Specs for your street car you will thank me later once you figure out just how big that bullet you just dodged was. I suggest you do a littlequick research on the differences between dampers. You need adjustable dampers to adjust the damping to match the springs you install. You just can't do this withfixed nonadjustabledampers and no company can match springs and dampers to your local conditions and personal drivingpreferences as as you can.

There islittle difference in cost and no downside to installing theD-Specs. These dampershave a very long life and you are not likely to swap them out again anytime sooneven if you install non adjustable dampers and are unhappy with them. A lot ofpeople just continue to suffer along and be unhappy instead of fully resolving the problem by replacement with a new set of TokicoD-Specs or KoniSport dampers. If you areon a really tight budget the minimum I recommend is a set of D-Specs, Eibach Camber bolts,reuse of the stock springs and installing a Steedaadjustable Panhard bar and matching Heavy Duty Panhard barbrace.These parts add up to less than$800 and if you do the installation yourself you can even buy a set ofsport springs and keepthe parts costs right about $1,000. These are the most basic items on the S197 suspension that I would change. You may consider going low budget on the Panhard bar and bracebut the options are not very good I'm afraid. Most of the lower cost options are compromised with increasednoise, vibration and harshness. I suggest sticking with a doubleadjustable Panhard barthat is made of chrome-molly with poly bushings on both ends not a poly/rod end combo unless you don't mind the extra noise, maintainenceand ocassional need to replace the rod end when it gets noisy which they all do no matter what other folks tell you. Steeda and BMRare both about the same money but the Steeda parts are made of chrome-molly steel not mild steel DOM lke BMR's parts are. I have not had good luck with the CHE or GMS parts and UMI offers nothing appropriate forquiet street car use. So$240 for the Steeda adjustable Panhard bar and matching HDPanhard bar braceseems like a bargin seeing that it is exactly what you need and the highest quality atprices comperable tobrands using lesser quality materials.


Wheel hop is not related to the struts you use. Wheel hop on thr S197 is caused by too much movement allowed by the soft stock rubber bushings. Replace the LCA's and maybe UCA with performance parts and the wheel hop goes away. That said I suggest installing FRPP GT500 LCA's and see if the wheel hop isreduced to a level you can live with. Don't be fooled if your wheel hopgoes away after lowering the car, this is a flaw in the suspension geometry caused by lowering the car which moves the S197's IC forwardtoo much.

You mention that I don't mention the Steeda HD strut mounts and that is true. The reason is that (OPPS!) I thought you were on a tight budget. They do work very well I've been using them and have been installing them in people's cars and they have for the most part all felt like this was a good deal. Loose the clicking and popping of the stock plastic strut mounts,gain camber adjustability andmore precise steering and all without any additonal NVH. Not cheap but a quality piece that in the long run will save you money as you have to keep replacing the stock Ford strut mounts. But anyway the Steeda HD adjustable strut mounts work very well and arevery smooth but the Steeda HD strut mounts are not cheap and not worth the money in this case.

Does this help you understand what is going on better?

HTH!