Keep modding or change cars . . .
08-04-2008, 07:25 PM
#1
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
Keep modding or change cars . . .
I have been putting together a rather large wish list for my plans with the car. Obviously, the list can be extensive as most wish lists are; but it has been causing me to pause. I was hoping for a friendly discussion regarding what might be done. Hoping for an unbiased genuine sports car loving insight. Kind of with the notion of "if I had to do it all over again, what would I do?"
Here is the dilemma:
Brief list of current mods - JLTII CAI, Brenspeed tune, 4.10s, Spydershaft, O/R X pipe, pypes cat back, UDPs, Hurst shifter, ss lines, pads, fluid, better 255/50/17 rubber.
Main compliants with the car - rear end has a disconnecte feel to it when making small steering corrections, brakes could be stronger, bumps at speed get the back end loose, could use more grunt.
Goal - set up for road course events that is a DD.
Current feasible mod list:
Suspension: Steeda Competition springs, Koni sports, UMI on car adj rod end panhard bar, Steeda panhard brace, CHE A brace with torque limiters
Future list:
Suspension: MM caster camber plates, LCA rod/poly, Steeda competition adj UCA, Prothane motor mounts, brake cooling ducts, 18x9-10 wheels
Power: American racing LT headers, high-flow cats, Corsa AB
Appearance: CDC shaker unit, GT500 spoiler, Silver Horse racing ¼ panel inserts
Wish list:
BBR stage 2 cams
Livernois ported heads
JDM 302 stroker kit
Cobra racing seats
Now here is the part where the friendly discussion comes in. I nearly bought a new 03 cobra way back when but I had just dropped 3K in mods into my Audi and wasn’t ready to part with it. The 06 GT comes off warranty next April so no more safety net. 04 cobras are running around $20-25K with the converts in the upper end and my car has a value around $23K. I have always wanted a little top down fun but always bought a hard top because of the structural integrity and the road course events.
So, would you decide to continue to mod the S197 or go try to find a stock terminator and do the standard CAI, TB, pulley set upgrade, full exhaust, tune, as well asstart upgrading the suspension and brakes?
I had this in another section but besides the mod mod mod there was no insight from a suspension and handling point of view
Here is the dilemma:
Brief list of current mods - JLTII CAI, Brenspeed tune, 4.10s, Spydershaft, O/R X pipe, pypes cat back, UDPs, Hurst shifter, ss lines, pads, fluid, better 255/50/17 rubber.
Main compliants with the car - rear end has a disconnecte feel to it when making small steering corrections, brakes could be stronger, bumps at speed get the back end loose, could use more grunt.
Goal - set up for road course events that is a DD.
Current feasible mod list:
Suspension: Steeda Competition springs, Koni sports, UMI on car adj rod end panhard bar, Steeda panhard brace, CHE A brace with torque limiters
Future list:
Suspension: MM caster camber plates, LCA rod/poly, Steeda competition adj UCA, Prothane motor mounts, brake cooling ducts, 18x9-10 wheels
Power: American racing LT headers, high-flow cats, Corsa AB
Appearance: CDC shaker unit, GT500 spoiler, Silver Horse racing ¼ panel inserts
Wish list:
BBR stage 2 cams
Livernois ported heads
JDM 302 stroker kit
Cobra racing seats
Now here is the part where the friendly discussion comes in. I nearly bought a new 03 cobra way back when but I had just dropped 3K in mods into my Audi and wasn’t ready to part with it. The 06 GT comes off warranty next April so no more safety net. 04 cobras are running around $20-25K with the converts in the upper end and my car has a value around $23K. I have always wanted a little top down fun but always bought a hard top because of the structural integrity and the road course events.
So, would you decide to continue to mod the S197 or go try to find a stock terminator and do the standard CAI, TB, pulley set upgrade, full exhaust, tune, as well asstart upgrading the suspension and brakes?
I had this in another section but besides the mod mod mod there was no insight from a suspension and handling point of view
08-04-2008, 07:57 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,692
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
Curious why you have 4.10s for road course work. Don't you find them limiting in terms of speed in gears?
Forme if you want to go fast on a road course then the vert is a non starter. But it all depends on what you want as naturally it is your car.
Just got back from my third track/lapping day and had a blast with the S197 coupe. The D Specs were snugged down to 1 and the car was really predictable and smooth as long as I keep my right foot under control. Of course it has been pretty heavily modified from stock!
Forme if you want to go fast on a road course then the vert is a non starter. But it all depends on what you want as naturally it is your car.
Just got back from my third track/lapping day and had a blast with the S197 coupe. The D Specs were snugged down to 1 and the car was really predictable and smooth as long as I keep my right foot under control. Of course it has been pretty heavily modified from stock!
08-04-2008, 09:36 PM
#3
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
I have 4.10s and find them limiting. Im getting pretty close to swaping in 3.73s.
UrS4 - Im thinking along pretty much the same lines as you regards the s197. I like the car a lot and for a street car its very nice. But on the track I have some of the same complaints. Dont get me wrong...its a blast to drive and handles reasonably wellbut Id like a little more grunt and the car weighs too much.So Im going thru the same dilemma, only Im thinking of a little different solution than buying a terminator (pretty pricey and it wouldn't handle any better). Ive been looking at prices of fully track prepped sn95s and fox bodies - they are lighter and a lot cheaper and safer (cages). For 8 -15K you can get some really nice ones, with built motors. For a few more thousand you can get a prepped C4 Vette. Only trouble is the cars Im talking about are trailer queens, not DD material. Maybe in a year or two. In the mean time Im going to try and avoid sinking much more money into the current ride. Id love to have a built motor but thats 5-7K. On top of the price of my car right now that would put me way into C5 territory, its just not worth it. The C5 would still be faster, lighter and handle better.
UrS4 - Im thinking along pretty much the same lines as you regards the s197. I like the car a lot and for a street car its very nice. But on the track I have some of the same complaints. Dont get me wrong...its a blast to drive and handles reasonably wellbut Id like a little more grunt and the car weighs too much.So Im going thru the same dilemma, only Im thinking of a little different solution than buying a terminator (pretty pricey and it wouldn't handle any better). Ive been looking at prices of fully track prepped sn95s and fox bodies - they are lighter and a lot cheaper and safer (cages). For 8 -15K you can get some really nice ones, with built motors. For a few more thousand you can get a prepped C4 Vette. Only trouble is the cars Im talking about are trailer queens, not DD material. Maybe in a year or two. In the mean time Im going to try and avoid sinking much more money into the current ride. Id love to have a built motor but thats 5-7K. On top of the price of my car right now that would put me way into C5 territory, its just not worth it. The C5 would still be faster, lighter and handle better.
08-04-2008, 10:24 PM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
I haven't done many track events, but the 4.10s is because the car is a DD also. I understand about the SN95 but again this would be a DD and going that old may not be the right step. I have been thinking about a vette but I have always liked the look of the terminators and I am a mustang fan. I was looking on the griggs site, a little too steep in price but the claims are nice. My rationale for the termi was the IRS and since my problems are with the handling in the rear I was thinking the IRS would be better even though it is on a heavier chasis.
Too bad there isn't someone with a well done GT suspension wise that could give me a test drive so I can know what the chasis and rear end are capable of.
Too bad there isn't someone with a well done GT suspension wise that could give me a test drive so I can know what the chasis and rear end are capable of.
08-05-2008, 07:49 AM
#5
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
I havent driven an IRS equiped Mustang, so cant comment there. But regards the stick axle I have some thoughts - my setup includes the D-Specs and Eibach Pro, chrome moly PHB and UCA. Also have 18lb wheels and 255/40/17 tires.
Using this setup I very much 'feel' the rear end. You mentioned the word 'disconnected', Id say the opposite, its very connected. I can tell exactly when it starts to slide for example and its very easy to control with the throttle. Going over bumps however I would agree with you, they can get the rear end out of shape, I think this is the nature of a stick axle and other than good dampers there is not much you can do about it. A watts link may help...dont know.
Regarding brakes - what is included in the stop tech stage 1 kit? To me the stock brakes arent the greatest but with the right setup: fluid, SS and especially pads they have great stopping power. When I put HT10 pads in the front they will slam you into the seat belt and, with brake ducts, have thus far been fade free.
I guess the one gripe we really share is the lack of grunt in the motor. Something that is pretty expensive to solve. But on the handling issue: its never going to handle like a Vette or M3 but with a few additional mods it can work really well:
- Koni or D-Spec
- Stiff springs
- better tires - 255/50 is not exactly a high performance tire
- PHB and UCA - makes a much smaller difference thandampers, springs and tires but still a good mod
- Setup: -2 camber, correct tire pressures (takes some testing), slight toe out, correct damper settings (takes testing)
- Track pads
So my 2 centsare give the above mods a try before stepping up to a Cobra, which would likely also require mods to get it to handle - they are not exactly known for their handling prowess. If handling, especially the rear end, is your biggest concern, these mods should do the trick. If the lack of power is also a major concern...then its either get out your checkbook or change cars.
Using this setup I very much 'feel' the rear end. You mentioned the word 'disconnected', Id say the opposite, its very connected. I can tell exactly when it starts to slide for example and its very easy to control with the throttle. Going over bumps however I would agree with you, they can get the rear end out of shape, I think this is the nature of a stick axle and other than good dampers there is not much you can do about it. A watts link may help...dont know.
Regarding brakes - what is included in the stop tech stage 1 kit? To me the stock brakes arent the greatest but with the right setup: fluid, SS and especially pads they have great stopping power. When I put HT10 pads in the front they will slam you into the seat belt and, with brake ducts, have thus far been fade free.
I guess the one gripe we really share is the lack of grunt in the motor. Something that is pretty expensive to solve. But on the handling issue: its never going to handle like a Vette or M3 but with a few additional mods it can work really well:
- Koni or D-Spec
- Stiff springs
- better tires - 255/50 is not exactly a high performance tire
- PHB and UCA - makes a much smaller difference thandampers, springs and tires but still a good mod
- Setup: -2 camber, correct tire pressures (takes some testing), slight toe out, correct damper settings (takes testing)
- Track pads
So my 2 centsare give the above mods a try before stepping up to a Cobra, which would likely also require mods to get it to handle - they are not exactly known for their handling prowess. If handling, especially the rear end, is your biggest concern, these mods should do the trick. If the lack of power is also a major concern...then its either get out your checkbook or change cars.
08-05-2008, 08:00 AM
#6
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Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 109
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
UrS4.
I know what you are feeling. I did not think I could get this Mustang to handle like my Audi (still own). To be honest, my 20 yr old 2nd gen RX-7(sold when I got the Mustang) handled better than the stock Mustang. I finally finished piecing together my suspension and put it all on a few weeks back. This Mustang is a completely different beast. I took the Mustang up in the mountains when I was done and pushed it like never before. My brother almost pissed himself he was so scared and I felt a control on the car I had never thought I would or could feel. I went with H&R super sport springs, Koni's (running koni on my 2 other rides currently and knew I could count on them again), BMR poly/rod adj. LCA's, relo brackets, BMR rod/rod adj. panhard. I have the ability to set the car for DD or for track events. My long winded point is, you can have that feeling you want at a reasonable price.
I know what you are feeling. I did not think I could get this Mustang to handle like my Audi (still own). To be honest, my 20 yr old 2nd gen RX-7(sold when I got the Mustang) handled better than the stock Mustang. I finally finished piecing together my suspension and put it all on a few weeks back. This Mustang is a completely different beast. I took the Mustang up in the mountains when I was done and pushed it like never before. My brother almost pissed himself he was so scared and I felt a control on the car I had never thought I would or could feel. I went with H&R super sport springs, Koni's (running koni on my 2 other rides currently and knew I could count on them again), BMR poly/rod adj. LCA's, relo brackets, BMR rod/rod adj. panhard. I have the ability to set the car for DD or for track events. My long winded point is, you can have that feeling you want at a reasonable price.
08-05-2008, 11:20 AM
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,700
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
NO mustang will even come close to a S197 for anywhere close to the same monetary investment.
I also have an AI prepared '93' Cobra. I also will have a CMC prepared SN95 soon.
tit for tat, my Cobra has a little bit better power/weight ratio, but my S197 handles much better. The Cobra has a torque arm,which while better than the original 4-link is an improvement - I like a 3-link much better. The Cobra is also a lot harder on tires. It goes thru fronts fairly quick because of the ridiculous amount of camber the car needs, as well as sliding the rear a lot more because no matter what - a fox body is going to push.
The S197 handles almost too good for most people. It's really easy to get them glued down to the point that they are boring to drive IMO. My S197 is actually a lot more fun on old tires. While that's great for me, fo newer guys that's probably for the best. Most new guys will go out and get a fox or SN95 and be pissed off because the car is a handful and slides all over the place compared to their S197.
Also keep in mind that to get a fox or SN95 close to an S197's performance you will spend the same amount of money. Don't be fooled - the **** adds up.
ABSOLUTELY do NOT buy a Terminator unless you only like going out for 3 laps at a time. They have major heat problems and require a lot of mods just to keep them reliable enough to go out on track. They also weigh MORE than an S197 and are hard on tires.
I also have an AI prepared '93' Cobra. I also will have a CMC prepared SN95 soon.
tit for tat, my Cobra has a little bit better power/weight ratio, but my S197 handles much better. The Cobra has a torque arm,which while better than the original 4-link is an improvement - I like a 3-link much better. The Cobra is also a lot harder on tires. It goes thru fronts fairly quick because of the ridiculous amount of camber the car needs, as well as sliding the rear a lot more because no matter what - a fox body is going to push.
The S197 handles almost too good for most people. It's really easy to get them glued down to the point that they are boring to drive IMO. My S197 is actually a lot more fun on old tires. While that's great for me, fo newer guys that's probably for the best. Most new guys will go out and get a fox or SN95 and be pissed off because the car is a handful and slides all over the place compared to their S197.
Also keep in mind that to get a fox or SN95 close to an S197's performance you will spend the same amount of money. Don't be fooled - the **** adds up.
ABSOLUTELY do NOT buy a Terminator unless you only like going out for 3 laps at a time. They have major heat problems and require a lot of mods just to keep them reliable enough to go out on track. They also weigh MORE than an S197 and are hard on tires.
08-05-2008, 09:35 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
ORIGINAL: Argonaut
I havent driven an IRS equiped Mustang, so cant comment there. But regards the stick axle I have some thoughts - my setup includes the D-Specs and Eibach Pro, chrome moly PHB and UCA. Also have 18lb wheels and 255/40/17 tires.
Using this setup I very much 'feel' the rear end. You mentioned the word 'disconnected', Id say the opposite, its very connected. I can tell exactly when it starts to slide for example and its very easy to control with the throttle. Going over bumps however I would agree with you, they can get the rear end out of shape, I think this is the nature of a stick axle and other than good dampers there is not much you can do about it. A watts link may help...dont know.
I used the word disconnected to mean: with quick change of direction, the front has pretty good steering response and feels sharp, while the rear feels like t is playing catch up, like there is an ever so slight yet noticeable lag in the rear as far as following the front. Picture it like two people in those horse costumes, sure they can turn but they don't move as a unit rather two separate parts. Now when going quick around a corner or through a sharp turn, the rear feels a little loose and like it wants to step out. This is more noticeable when turning the car to the left. It feels more stable and has a more solid feel when turning right. I know the rear wheels are not centered in the wheel well, I think the right rear wheel is inside the wheel well a 1/4 inch more. Is what I am feeling a function of the third link or will an adj panhard bar remedy this? Also, when going over bumps at speed, the rear feels "lighter" now, traction is lost a little easier when accelerating over a bump and the rear feels like it wants to jump in the air. Is this the rear shocks failing, it is like the rear springs are no controlled as much and they are just rebounding the rear into the air.
Regarding brakes - what is included in the stop tech stage 1 kit? To me the stock brakes arent the greatest but with the right setup: fluid, SS and especially pads they have great stopping power. When I put HT10 pads in the front they will slam you into the seat belt and, with brake ducts, have thus far been fade free.
The stoptech stage 1 includes ss lines, motul blue brake fluid, and hawk HPS pads.
I guess the one gripe we really share is the lack of grunt in the motor. Something that is pretty expensive to solve. But on the handling issue: its never going to handle like a Vette or M3 but with a few additional mods it can work really well:
- Koni or D-Spec
- Stiff springs
- better tires - 255/50 is not exactly a high performance tire
I realize that 255/50/17 is not a great size from a handling standpoint, but the tire is wider than stock and it is a summer tire, not an All season like the Pirellis
- PHB and UCA - makes a much smaller difference thandampers, springs and tires but still a good mod
- Setup: -2 camber, correct tire pressures (takes some testing), slight toe out, correct damper settings (takes testing)
- Track pads
So my 2 centsare give the above mods a try before stepping up to a Cobra, which would likely also require mods to get it to handle - they are not exactly known for their handling prowess. If handling, especially the rear end, is your biggest concern, these mods should do the trick. If the lack of power is also a major concern...then its either get out your checkbook or change cars.
I havent driven an IRS equiped Mustang, so cant comment there. But regards the stick axle I have some thoughts - my setup includes the D-Specs and Eibach Pro, chrome moly PHB and UCA. Also have 18lb wheels and 255/40/17 tires.
Using this setup I very much 'feel' the rear end. You mentioned the word 'disconnected', Id say the opposite, its very connected. I can tell exactly when it starts to slide for example and its very easy to control with the throttle. Going over bumps however I would agree with you, they can get the rear end out of shape, I think this is the nature of a stick axle and other than good dampers there is not much you can do about it. A watts link may help...dont know.
I used the word disconnected to mean: with quick change of direction, the front has pretty good steering response and feels sharp, while the rear feels like t is playing catch up, like there is an ever so slight yet noticeable lag in the rear as far as following the front. Picture it like two people in those horse costumes, sure they can turn but they don't move as a unit rather two separate parts. Now when going quick around a corner or through a sharp turn, the rear feels a little loose and like it wants to step out. This is more noticeable when turning the car to the left. It feels more stable and has a more solid feel when turning right. I know the rear wheels are not centered in the wheel well, I think the right rear wheel is inside the wheel well a 1/4 inch more. Is what I am feeling a function of the third link or will an adj panhard bar remedy this? Also, when going over bumps at speed, the rear feels "lighter" now, traction is lost a little easier when accelerating over a bump and the rear feels like it wants to jump in the air. Is this the rear shocks failing, it is like the rear springs are no controlled as much and they are just rebounding the rear into the air.
Regarding brakes - what is included in the stop tech stage 1 kit? To me the stock brakes arent the greatest but with the right setup: fluid, SS and especially pads they have great stopping power. When I put HT10 pads in the front they will slam you into the seat belt and, with brake ducts, have thus far been fade free.
The stoptech stage 1 includes ss lines, motul blue brake fluid, and hawk HPS pads.
I guess the one gripe we really share is the lack of grunt in the motor. Something that is pretty expensive to solve. But on the handling issue: its never going to handle like a Vette or M3 but with a few additional mods it can work really well:
- Koni or D-Spec
- Stiff springs
- better tires - 255/50 is not exactly a high performance tire
I realize that 255/50/17 is not a great size from a handling standpoint, but the tire is wider than stock and it is a summer tire, not an All season like the Pirellis
- PHB and UCA - makes a much smaller difference thandampers, springs and tires but still a good mod
- Setup: -2 camber, correct tire pressures (takes some testing), slight toe out, correct damper settings (takes testing)
- Track pads
So my 2 centsare give the above mods a try before stepping up to a Cobra, which would likely also require mods to get it to handle - they are not exactly known for their handling prowess. If handling, especially the rear end, is your biggest concern, these mods should do the trick. If the lack of power is also a major concern...then its either get out your checkbook or change cars.
08-05-2008, 09:40 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,313
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
ORIGINAL: RodeoFlyer
NO mustang will even come close to a S197 for anywhere close to the same monetary investment.
I also have an AI prepared '93' Cobra. I also will have a CMC prepared SN95 soon.
tit for tat, my Cobra has a little bit better power/weight ratio, but my S197 handles much better. The Cobra has a torque arm,which while better than the original 4-link is an improvement - I like a 3-link much better. The Cobra is also a lot harder on tires. It goes thru fronts fairly quick because of the ridiculous amount of camber the car needs, as well as sliding the rear a lot more because no matter what - a fox body is going to push.
I was looking at the Griggs site again and they now have a street setup for the S197. While you can upgrade to a watts link, their standard rear setup includes a TA with the 3rd link. Do you think this is overkill? I know Griggs stuff is big $$$ but do you think their street setup is too track wise and would not be a liveable DD setup?
The S197 handles almost too good for most people. It's really easy to get them glued down to the point that they are boring to drive IMO. My S197 is actually a lot more fun on old tires. While that's great for me, fo newer guys that's probably for the best. Most new guys will go out and get a fox or SN95 and be pissed off because the car is a handful and slides all over the place compared to their S197.
Also keep in mind that to get a fox or SN95 close to an S197's performance you will spend the same amount of money. Don't be fooled - the **** adds up.
ABSOLUTELY do NOT buy a Terminator unless you only like going out for 3 laps at a time. They have major heat problems and require a lot of mods just to keep them reliable enough to go out on track. They also weigh MORE than an S197 and are hard on tires.
I was wondering about that too, good point about the weight.
NO mustang will even come close to a S197 for anywhere close to the same monetary investment.
I also have an AI prepared '93' Cobra. I also will have a CMC prepared SN95 soon.
tit for tat, my Cobra has a little bit better power/weight ratio, but my S197 handles much better. The Cobra has a torque arm,which while better than the original 4-link is an improvement - I like a 3-link much better. The Cobra is also a lot harder on tires. It goes thru fronts fairly quick because of the ridiculous amount of camber the car needs, as well as sliding the rear a lot more because no matter what - a fox body is going to push.
I was looking at the Griggs site again and they now have a street setup for the S197. While you can upgrade to a watts link, their standard rear setup includes a TA with the 3rd link. Do you think this is overkill? I know Griggs stuff is big $$$ but do you think their street setup is too track wise and would not be a liveable DD setup?
The S197 handles almost too good for most people. It's really easy to get them glued down to the point that they are boring to drive IMO. My S197 is actually a lot more fun on old tires. While that's great for me, fo newer guys that's probably for the best. Most new guys will go out and get a fox or SN95 and be pissed off because the car is a handful and slides all over the place compared to their S197.
Also keep in mind that to get a fox or SN95 close to an S197's performance you will spend the same amount of money. Don't be fooled - the **** adds up.
ABSOLUTELY do NOT buy a Terminator unless you only like going out for 3 laps at a time. They have major heat problems and require a lot of mods just to keep them reliable enough to go out on track. They also weigh MORE than an S197 and are hard on tires.
I was wondering about that too, good point about the weight.
08-06-2008, 12:03 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,700
RE: Keep modding or change cars . . .
You're misunderstanding the Griggs site. Technically, a torque arm setup IS a 3-link, but not in the sense we typically think of. The torque arm replaces the third link, which IMO adresses a nonexistent issue. It's a setup that has worked well for Griggs for a long time, but IMO is more of a carryover item that is "different" than the 40 third links on the market and therefore in their view marketable as such. It adds a bunch of weight to the car, as well as reduces ground clearance.
I'm prettty sure their "street" fron strut setup is actually a Ground Control kit in disguise. They are in the same neighborhood up in NorCal, so it wouldn't surprise me. Paying extra money for some extra labeling isn't worth a few hundred $ more IMO. I personally think it's more damage control than anything. When I spoke to John Griggs he was POSITIVE they would NOT be offering a strut based kit for the front because of the "dangerous" ball joints (that GAC cars, AI cars, and Miller Cup cars are all running with success).
Don't get me wrong - Griggs stuff is very well made and it's fast. It's also overpriced and overkill for anything but a flat-out race car. Unfortunately they have created a niche that only a small percentage of us truly fall into.
I'm prettty sure their "street" fron strut setup is actually a Ground Control kit in disguise. They are in the same neighborhood up in NorCal, so it wouldn't surprise me. Paying extra money for some extra labeling isn't worth a few hundred $ more IMO. I personally think it's more damage control than anything. When I spoke to John Griggs he was POSITIVE they would NOT be offering a strut based kit for the front because of the "dangerous" ball joints (that GAC cars, AI cars, and Miller Cup cars are all running with success).
Don't get me wrong - Griggs stuff is very well made and it's fast. It's also overpriced and overkill for anything but a flat-out race car. Unfortunately they have created a niche that only a small percentage of us truly fall into.