Philostang

Last weekend I was at Road America for a couple of track days. All and all it was a good time, and I was able to dial in my new suspension to the point of feeling like the cost was worth it. Over the course of the two days I also got faster, so I was pleased with myself, even though I know I need TONS more seat time.

I just wanted to comment on another driver I met. James was running his 2007 Mustang GT, beautifully done as a Boss 302 Tribute. His work was almost entirely aesthetic (he drove with stock suspension, stock brakes/pads) with only an upgrade to BFG g-Force T/A KDW tires in 255/45/18 (I think) on some aftermarket wheels. His tires were better than mine, but I don’t think mine were so bad as to account for what happened.

James utterly SMOKED me (we’re talking an 11 second difference). In fact, he smoked everyone in my group, the faster group ahead of me, and hung tight with everyone in his group (a fairly quick bunch of well modified cars with superchargers, etc.). All this on stock brakes, stock suspension, and only better tires. How did he do it? Sure the tires helped, but let’s be frank, everyone else in his group had top street tires to R-compound tires as well. The real story is that he used to race sports racers for many years. This guy was super familiar with the track, and he has mad skills. Crazy, mad, you-only-think-you-can-drive-compared-to-him sort of skills. This dude was bad…super-bad (but in a really kind and approachable way).

I for one can’t believe how fast our cars are out of the box (practically) with a genuinely skilled driver behind the wheel. So I’m cooling off most of my jets with spending money on mods, and I’m now looking to spend money on schooling and seat time.

The moral of the story (if you didn’t know already): fancy parts and more power mean nothing if you can’t control it all.

Best,
-j

r3velation

maybe he had a blower!

all joking aside, you're absolutely right on the driver mod.

i was driving down my canyon-like hill...it's about a mile long and i have to drive it everyday. it's gotten very easy for me to do it at anywhere from 80 to 110 and have it feel like i'm cruising. anyway, there was an 08 vista blue gt, stock except for tires and some chrome 20's and auto. he smoked me by a good 3 seconds. i was fairly impressed, but my tires are going bald so my tires were singing like it was going to give out.

i guess, i'm not as quick as i used to be. i still have the young age, but not as reckless as i used to be at 16 or 17.

jahudso2

Nice story. The thing that suprises me most is that he did it on stock brake pads/fluid. You would think that after a couple of laps of high speed braking he would have a pretty soft pedal.

RodeoFlyer

A couple of weeks ago I went out to Willow Springs for a test/tune day. It was a last minute decision to go. I went out in full street trim - cheapo Khumo ECSTA's, stock pads. I had an absolute blast. My car is setup so well that honestly - it's boring on race tires. I slid the car around all day. Those cheap tires sounded like a dog getting neutered lol. I received lots of compliments on my car control. It was nice to go out for once and not worry about setup changes, tire pressures/temps, lap times, etc. . I always have fun at the track, but that day I had FUN.

I can't say enough how people should just leave their cars alone and just go out and have some fun learning how to drive.

UrS4

Thanks for posting. I have seen this time and again. Not shocked by the stock brakes comment, there are many ways to 'brake' or scrub off speed without using just your brakes. Did you happen to talk to him about his tire pressures or how much tire he went through during the event? It would be interesting to know.

Argonaut

So true, so true. Next time you see one of those typical questions like: "How can I make my car handle like an M3" you should tell them this story. The fact is that most sporty cars today are way more capable than the nut behind the wheel. I see it every time I go to a track - guys driving lessor cars turning better lap times than 911s, Vettes and Vipers...simply because they are better drivers. And in AX...well lets not even go there. Its very humbling getting blown away by a honda civic.

Like so many others - I spent money on the car first and the driver 2nd. It was only after I started doing AX and DE that I learned first hand this approach is backwards. +1 for ending the car mods and concentrating on the driver mod.

Pwny

Track days are all about the driver.

Power means next to nothing on a road course.

Philostang

Hey UrS4, I've heard this about scrubbing off speed w/o brakes, but I've never heard or directly seen it. To be honest I was too blown away to ask coherent questions, and the best I could manage was "can I ride shot-gun to see how you drive the car?" I got a yes, but it was late in the day/event, so I got a rain check. We have another event at the end of September, and I hope to cash in on that offer.

James did say that he was "over-driving" the car, and his tires looked hellish compared to mine (I didn't ask for a before/after measurement of tread or pressures). He only ran one day, so I'm sure if he was running the entire weekend he would have dialed back quite a bit to save his tires and brakes.

I'm not even sure what "over-driving" means in this context. He never spun out, never looked out of control (from what I could see), advanced in his pack, and his wife didn't run out of the car screaming or deathly pale. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the entire time he had the wife in the car as well...so not only was he mostly stock, he was heavier than me.

Anyway, he clearly has greater context to make such claims more meaningful than I can. I know I can feel when I'm on the absolute ragged edge (usually right before I eat the kitty litter), but I'd like to be more aware of to a wider range of degree. There seems to be a range like "driving up to the limit," "over-driving," and then "losing it." I can do the last. But I'd like to get better at doing the first and sensing the second. I'm looking forward to talking with him and other experienced drivers much more in the future. This is one of the things I love about track days; you have fun driving and meet great people.

Best,
-j

zero2sixd

I mostly agree with this. However, my feeling is that, if you get just as much enjoyment out of modifying your car as you do driving it, then do both at the same time. If your metric is simply elapsed time, then there is certainly more to be gained by seat time and study than $$.

In my case, I actually did take my car to DE and AX events for a year (w/standard braking upgrades, please don't try DEs without this!) before making any modifications and I had planned on taking that even further. However, there comes a point when you realize that you're learning to drive the car fast the way it is (i.e. understeer tendencies on corner entry and exit) and begin to understand that the car could be so much more fun to drive with tires, stiffer springs and some balance correction (i.e. rear sway bar).

Having done it the way I did, I can safely say that my car is a lot more fun to drive at AX or DE now with the tires, brakes, d-specs, pro-kit springs, steeda PHB, brace and rear sway bar. Would I know the difference if I had just done the mods and then started driving events? Nope. Would it matter? Tough to say. Certainly I learned how to drive a car with understeer tendencies, but since I've corrected that, I now use a different approach to most turns. It's nice to know what it takes to drive an understeering car quickly, but I wouldn't be upset if I went to my grave without that knowledge.

Sleeper_08

I agree totally with the OP about the driver being the most important factor, especially after getting beat by a near stock Hyundai Accent at an Auto X event!

My approach was to get my car setup once and not have to worry about constantly changing it. Thus the mods were carefully researched and planned based on what I wanted the car to do.

The car is now stable and predictable and after about 5 hours of hard track time my ability to drive it near the limit is improving. It is also a blast to drive on the track with the SC and the rest of the mods.

Next year my budget will all go towards seat time (and maybe some new tires) and hopefully I will get better each time. As the car will not be changing any improvment in lap times will be coming from the driver factor.

My next goal is to be able to heel and toe properly, especially for the 3 to 2 downshifts.