Impressions of Saleen Watts Link
11-23-2009, 07:18 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 329
Hey Blair,
Thanks for the write up. Q: Did you switch from the OEM panhard bar to this Watt's link, or from an aftermarket PHB? I only ask because much of the improvement you describe I too felt going from the stock PHB to a good aftermarket one. Just trying to get a sense of how to isolate the degree of benefit coming from the Watt's.
Best,
-j
Thanks for the write up. Q: Did you switch from the OEM panhard bar to this Watt's link, or from an aftermarket PHB? I only ask because much of the improvement you describe I too felt going from the stock PHB to a good aftermarket one. Just trying to get a sense of how to isolate the degree of benefit coming from the Watt's.
Best,
-j
11-23-2009, 07:25 PM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 329
I have a couple of observations after driving the car a little more. First, I am getting more driveline slop noise that wasn't there or wasn't noticeable before. Backing in and out of the gas makes the driveline/driveshaft clunk and pop more. I never noticed this so much before.
Second, my car had a *tiny* amount of gear whine only around 65 mph in 5th gear before the install. Hardly noticeable unless you knew what you were listening for. Now the gear whine is louder and higher pitched and starts at 65 and gets louder til about 75 mph and then vanishes. Its not objectionably loud, but it is louder than before. I am not sure if it is because of the watts link or maybe the gears don't like the new fluid I put in... mobil1 synthetic gear lube 75w140 plus a tube of friction modifier.
Still enjoying the improved handling though. Problems so far are minor and don't detract from the improvement in driveability in my opinion.
Second, my car had a *tiny* amount of gear whine only around 65 mph in 5th gear before the install. Hardly noticeable unless you knew what you were listening for. Now the gear whine is louder and higher pitched and starts at 65 and gets louder til about 75 mph and then vanishes. Its not objectionably loud, but it is louder than before. I am not sure if it is because of the watts link or maybe the gears don't like the new fluid I put in... mobil1 synthetic gear lube 75w140 plus a tube of friction modifier.
Still enjoying the improved handling though. Problems so far are minor and don't detract from the improvement in driveability in my opinion.
11-23-2009, 10:12 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 3,792
I have a couple of observations after driving the car a little more. First, I am getting more driveline slop noise that wasn't there or wasn't noticeable before. Backing in and out of the gas makes the driveline/driveshaft clunk and pop more. I never noticed this so much before.
Second, my car had a *tiny* amount of gear whine only around 65 mph in 5th gear before the install. Hardly noticeable unless you knew what you were listening for. Now the gear whine is louder and higher pitched and starts at 65 and gets louder til about 75 mph and then vanishes. Its not objectionably loud, but it is louder than before. I am not sure if it is because of the watts link or maybe the gears don't like the new fluid I put in... mobil1 synthetic gear lube 75w140 plus a tube of friction modifier.
Still enjoying the improved handling though. Problems so far are minor and don't detract from the improvement in driveability in my opinion.
Second, my car had a *tiny* amount of gear whine only around 65 mph in 5th gear before the install. Hardly noticeable unless you knew what you were listening for. Now the gear whine is louder and higher pitched and starts at 65 and gets louder til about 75 mph and then vanishes. Its not objectionably loud, but it is louder than before. I am not sure if it is because of the watts link or maybe the gears don't like the new fluid I put in... mobil1 synthetic gear lube 75w140 plus a tube of friction modifier.
Still enjoying the improved handling though. Problems so far are minor and don't detract from the improvement in driveability in my opinion.
11-25-2009, 08:18 AM
#14
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 329
I called and spoke to the shop that did my gears and according to them the increased noise is because of the synthetic gear lube. I told them that the ford manual specifies synthetic lube, but they told me they never use the synthetic stuff because it is always noisier in solid axle applications. Doesn't make sense to me. They recommended replacing the fluid with conventional fluid. I'm going to try this and see if it reduces the gear whine.
11-25-2009, 09:21 AM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 671
I'd have to guess (and this is just a guess) that you're getting more noise in the cabin because the Saleen link is acting as a stethoscope. It's picking the sound up directly at the differential (from the cover), transferring it through the bellcrank, to the Watts arm, and directly to the chassis. There's not a lot of mass there to cover the noise up, and only a single bushing to soak any.
With the normal setup, you'd have to have the sound transmitted through the differential, all the way down the big heavy steel axle tubes, through the filled panhard bar (that is designed to reduce noise) and then into the chassis. All that weight would change the tone, and on top of it, I'd say that the stock bushings are probably softer than the ones on the Watts, sucking up even more of the noise especially since it has to travel through 2 of them on the stock setup.
I doubt changing to a non spec fluid is going to help a lot, but that's just my guess.
With the normal setup, you'd have to have the sound transmitted through the differential, all the way down the big heavy steel axle tubes, through the filled panhard bar (that is designed to reduce noise) and then into the chassis. All that weight would change the tone, and on top of it, I'd say that the stock bushings are probably softer than the ones on the Watts, sucking up even more of the noise especially since it has to travel through 2 of them on the stock setup.
I doubt changing to a non spec fluid is going to help a lot, but that's just my guess.
11-25-2009, 06:29 PM
#17
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,936
Gear oil change won't help, unless you go to something thicker. Synthetics aren't thinner than petroleum oils, and it won't quiet anything down.
Fays is the more sporting of the two between the Steeda and Fays2 design because it is all rod-ended, where the Steeda uses poly bushings. And frankly those are the only two I'd bother with because I prefer adjustment, or at least the option--and it's not like any of the others save you any money in comparison.
Fays is the more sporting of the two between the Steeda and Fays2 design because it is all rod-ended, where the Steeda uses poly bushings. And frankly those are the only two I'd bother with because I prefer adjustment, or at least the option--and it's not like any of the others save you any money in comparison.
11-26-2009, 07:23 PM
#18
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 329
The swtich back to conventional fluid got rid of the whine. Now it is as quiet as it was before. I am really enjoying the car now. The watts link has not added any additional noise or harshness to the ride. Very happy with this mod.
12-01-2009, 04:37 AM
#19
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Detroit Area
Posts: 894
Some logic here is reversed. I had the stock set up obviously, then the Steeda panhard/brace, then the Saleen Watts, and now the Techco Watts Link.
The idea that you get 90% of what the Watts does on the street with the Panhard set up is incorrect. It's the opposite. You do at the track. The issue is you get the most lateral movement from the chassis on dips, rises and bumps and uneven street surfaces. Thats where the real difference is in hard cornering, with the better Watts systems, you get no lateral travel when the car is raised and lowered, and it minimizes the disadvantage of the solid axle.
The track has much smoother surfaces then the street, so there would be the least noticeable improvement there, since there is fewer uneven surfaces. Obviously on a road course track being thrown in the air on peaks and dips would see a great improvement in reduced lateral movement and rear kick out while turning under force. Still, to me the huge difference was cornering hard with bumps on the street, and accelerating out of corners, the car is planted better with the Watts from my direct experience. Erik
The idea that you get 90% of what the Watts does on the street with the Panhard set up is incorrect. It's the opposite. You do at the track. The issue is you get the most lateral movement from the chassis on dips, rises and bumps and uneven street surfaces. Thats where the real difference is in hard cornering, with the better Watts systems, you get no lateral travel when the car is raised and lowered, and it minimizes the disadvantage of the solid axle.
The track has much smoother surfaces then the street, so there would be the least noticeable improvement there, since there is fewer uneven surfaces. Obviously on a road course track being thrown in the air on peaks and dips would see a great improvement in reduced lateral movement and rear kick out while turning under force. Still, to me the huge difference was cornering hard with bumps on the street, and accelerating out of corners, the car is planted better with the Watts from my direct experience. Erik
Last edited by eolson; 12-01-2009 at 04:56 AM.
