Just1Guy

Of the boards I frequent this one seems to have a high concentration of S197 pilots that get out on the track with their car. And I have noticed that there are some posters that know their $h!t very well. On this board I see posts based on S197 knowledge, testing, conclusions, experience, etc. opposed to the norm which is people simply parroting information with no clue as to its validity. Don’t get me wrong, there is “Parroting” that goes on here too, just not as much. I posted this here because this appears to be the “source”.

I’m looking into getting into some Coilovers. There seems to be a fair selection of them out there but I don’t know if I am aware of everything available. Obviously I would be much better off if I was familiar with everything on the market so I can make comparisons between them and hopefully arrive at the best set for my needs.

What I am looking for:

Does anyone know if a kit that is available that does not use spring preload to alter ride height? I would much rather have struts/shocks that have an adjustable length so when I want to change ride height I don’t have to change my spring preloads and therefore the secondary “foundation” of my setup (the first foundation being geometry).

I would like to have compression and rebound adjustment if possible but I would probably settle for rebound only due to price/availability reasons.

So far I have dug up (Some of the below do not all fit all my needs, just looking for everything available at this point):
• BC Racing
• Eibach Multi-Pro R2
• H&R
• K&W
• Tien

The car they will be going on is a street car. It will probably never see a road course or a dragstrip, I have other toys for that. When it is nice out I drive it frequently but it is 100% toy. It is already more than capable of shrugging off any situation I could throw at it on a public road with no runoff, gravel traps or corner workers. But, I will be doing a few hill climbs this season and next year would like to take the trip out to do the Silver State Classic. The driving force behind my desire for coilovers is spring selection, spring quality, the ability to swap springs out for “off road” driving quickly and compression/rebound control which I will most likely twiddle until my fingers fall off. And to be 100% honest I like cool stuff and coilovers are cool.

Taking the above into consideration, specific coilover recommendations and why are welcome.

My background (I’m putting this out there so we can avoid the “basics”) - I have tens of thousands of miles on the track under my belt (as the pilot). There were years that I was at the track 24 weekends and my annual tire bill was in excess of $60K. I have won 9 Championships, countless races, set lap records and was a track coach for a while. In addition to that I have a thorough understanding of suspension. Everything from tuning to designing and building for solutions that are not available “off the shelf”. I am kitted with everything needed to modify and service shocks, even trackside. The term “tuning” to me means everything up to and including modification/ re-valving of a shocks internals and I frequently do that level of work in my trailer at the track if necessary.

The reason I need input on available product for the S197 is that I have never tuned on one in a race or track day environment and 99% of the time I am working with manufacturers like Ohlins, Penske, etc and therefore don’t have much of a knowledge base when it comes to entry level suspension systems.

I’m not attempting to brag, stick my chest out, challenge anyone, etc. I am fully aware of my capabilities and where I fit in to the roadracing environment/hierarchy. In short, can we avoid a pissing match about a topic other than coilovers? I know all too well how forums can get, especially when someone feels that they have been “challenged” in some way or simply because some people use forums to spar. I would appreciate your help in avoiding any unnecessary silliness.

I'm ready to learn.

Thanks a lot

908ssp

How to know if a shock is ride height adjustable. If the shock adjustment is the spring perch it is preload adjustable. If the adjustment is at the mounting end of the strut or shock it is ride height adjustable. Often you will see a rod ball end with female threads attached to one end of the shock. this is than adjustable on a thread rod which gives you an inch or so of ride height adjustment. Many race cars and the reason we don't see more ride height adjustable shocks for cars is that the adjustment is built into the chassis like NASCAR uses. We have all heard about corner jacking or seen the pit guy reach through a hole in the rear window with a long wrench and make a couple turns. He is reaching down to a nut that adjusts a threaded connection for the upper mount of the rear spring/shock he is changing ride height not preload.

F1Fan

Most of the brands you posted have shiney outsides and junk insides. Are you set on a conventional strut/coilover? For the kind of money you will have in a pair Koni 2800 series #2817 inverted race struts and the cost to fabricate the strut bodies so you can adjust ride height independently of preload (full threaded body) you might as well spend the money on an SLA from Griggs Racing or Agent 47. They may be a bit fragile for a street car though but for the money they offer superior geometry for suspension and steering and optimized anti-roll bar geometry too.

HTH!

steelcomp

I have over 100K mi on my Ground Control Struts and rears. The front struts are a shortened and threaded strut body that GC fabricates and uses a Koni cartridge. The fronts on mine are the 8611 double adjustable, and they use Eibach springs. They have their own billet top plate which uses a BMW upper bearing and has camber adjustability.
The rears are composed of a billet adjustable spring perch (for ride height) and a replacement Koni shock. Mine are the 8011 Sport double adjustable rears.
They only advertise the single adjustable Koni's on the website, but you can order the DA's. Three years ago (almost exactly) the price for the complete kit was about 2200.00 with the DA's.
IMO this is about as far as you're going to go with a conventional strut set up in an S197 and for what you get, well worth the price.

I also don't believe that in most circumstances, under most drivers, a SLA setup has enough advantage over the strut to justify the cost. Plenty of strut cars right up ther with, and in front of, the Griggs cars.
JMO.

www.ground-control.com

ccwebb

Hi Steelcomp,
What is a conventional strut set-up? Not SLA? Just curious because beyond the Ground Control set-ups one could opt for Koni 2800's, Penske 7300, 8300, FR500S (Sachs), FR500C (multimatic) dampers. Obviously all high dollar options and 500C's require a bit of modification to the car but still conventional, i.e. not SLA.

steelcomp

Conventional meaning not needing any modifications or reservior mounting, or inverted designs. Straight bolt in replacement.

ccwebb

Got it, makes sense!

F1Fan

Steelcomp,

I think the OP is looking for full threaded body struts that allow you to change ride height without changing the height of the spring seat so he can better control spring preload independently of ride height. I think this is more useful for high power lightweight cars with downforce but less so for heavy N/A non-aero cars. Why he thinks he needs this level of sophistication for an occasionally driven toy car I don't know.

But I gotta agree that the GC kit is a heck of a deal if you get the Koni D/A cartridges and have GC supply a D/A rear damper as you have done. I've got a set of TC Kline Racing Koni D/A 87XX (Koni fabed coilover struts) and 82XX dampers which use similar construction to your Mustang's GC coilover setup but with custom valving for my E36 M3. They make for very good entry level race or deluxe street dampers when used with the right lighter rate springs. I like them and expect that on an S197 chassis they would work equally well seeing that Ford basically copied the M3's front suspension geometry.

Oh I just threw out the idea of an SLA because the OP said he is a high mileage, very experienced race driver and says he spent $60K on tires one year. So I'm thinking he would have the money, tools and time to set up an SLA to work right and be able to support the maintenance of an SLA. It was just an idea that might be appreciated by a connoisseur of race suspensions. The OP does temper his greatness and the level raciness needed by saying he's looking for a street friendly suspension for a toy car though so I think the GC coilovers are a great option as you suggested.

Cheers!

Team STILLEN

Here is some REAL world racing experience....

Go with the TEIN Flex! We have been racing our S197 on it for YEARS and have had great results. easy aluminum shock body adjustment for pre-load and multiple spring rate options. Includes front upper bearing plate with camber adjustment and included modified shortened end links with hi-misalignment rod ends. Plus you can use EDFC for in car electronic adjustment of rebound dampening rate.

We have run just about every coil over on the market for the S197 (H&R, Eibach, KW, Progress, TEIN, BC) without having to run the SLA systems and so far, these are the best for what you are looking for. PM me for details and pricing.

F1Fan

Hi Eric,

Can you tell me how much the total stroke length is for the S197 TEIN Flex coilover struts? What's the warranty period? Can the TEIN Flex dampers be rebuilt? If so how much does a rebuild cost per strut? What is the turnaround time and where are they rebuilt? Is there custom revalving available? What does that cost?

Cheers!