angryBits

Total suspension noob here...

Goals are to lower and reduce wheel hop.

I wanna do it right, I've looked around and around and this is what I've come up with for my goals, however I'm a noob and I would like some validation in case I'm missing something (no matter how small).

Suggestions are welcome!


At a glance:

CUT Coilovers (may need GT500 Strut mounts)
ADD Adjustable struts/shocks/springs
Panhard bar (adjustable b/c I'm lowering)
Lower Control Arms (non-adjust)
Upper 3rd Link (adjustable b/c I'm lowering)
CUT Rear Control Arm relocate
CUT Bump Steer
Alignment

~ $2000 in parts and I'm cool with that, not willing to spend much more though (aside from installation).


Detailed:

1. Coilovers. I'm open to suggestions here but height adjust is a interest to me. I would like 1" (or less if possible) up front and 1.5" in the back. I'm looking for something ideal for aggressive street and occasional track use. Lower $ is better.
Megan Racing or Eibach or others?

2. GT500 Strut mounts depending on what coilovers here

3. Steeda Adjustable Panhard bar to recenter the rear after lowered. What about the steeda panhard bar brace too much?

4. Steeda Lower Control Arms (non adjustable). to reduce wheel hop

5. Steeda Adjustable 3rd Link (adjustable due to lowering). to reduce wheel hop

6. Rear Control Arm relocate. UMI has a non-weld one, Steeda has a welded one. Do I really need to weld it? Not sure I like permanent.

7. Steeda bump steer to keep the toe steady when suspension moves. Overkill but I thought I might as well have it put in while I have the shop guys under my car.

8. Alignment after all is done.



When I started looking around I was sort of loosely following this guy but then adjusted things for cost and what sounded better for me.


Thanks everyone I really appreciate the help in advance!

socalwrench

It seems like you've done quite a bit of research and are on the right track. I will just throw in a few bits of advice.

Coilovers are great; Eibach, H&R and Roush are who I would recommend. Adjustable ones are great for track cars.

Not sure why you're worrying about the LCA relocation- trying to change pickup angles? Just stick with an adj. UCA and solid LCAs (adj. pinion angle); UMI, BMR and Steeda are my recommendations.

Also, I would also recommend adjustable front LCAs OR adjustable camber/caster plates. They work better than eccentric bolts and can be adjusted for track use; BMR makes the adj. front LCAs and Steeda makes the caster/camber plates.

Lastly, even though it's a bit off topic, don't forget the tires. You can have a slick suspension setup, but you need tire traction to make it work.

angryBits

Thanks. For now I'm going with the RTR package from LMR which includes the 19x9.5 and Nitto N555 275/35 R19s all around.

LCA Relocation is only because I desperately want to eliminate wheel hop and since I'm lowering the car it seems a little more appropriate. But I am a suspension noob so I'm happy to cut that mod if its not going to make much difference.

Philostang

Ok, I'll bite. Besides, you already said you're a suspension noob, and you caught me in a mood.

I'm a noob as well, but one that knows he's a noob by knowing enough to recognized those in the know and those not so much.

First, you were enamored with the RTR package, which is a very cool looking wheel with matched tires. These are also seriously heavy wheels, not a performance upgrade at all, and the N555 tires have gotten mixed reviews. The guy you were following in that link settled on Ford Racing dampers and springs, and though the new ones are much better than the early S197 offerings, you can still do better with Koni.

The reason I'm going over that is because "doing it right" is a total myth absent a clear sense of your needs. And your needs don't seem to warrant a slew of the stuff proposed.

Realistically you're not looking for a serious track oriented set up, so coil overs are not at all necessary. Indeed, you can get inferior handling from a cheap coilover kit that uses a lesser damper than other strut based offerings. The fact that it is a "coil over" doesn't really mean much (beyond adjustable ride heights and some modest weight savings). The quality of the damper and its match with a good spring (right rate, not too much drop for our cars, etc.) is far more important. You can get that while retaining the more conventional strut based set up.

I'd talk to Sam Strano about your options here. I'm going to tell you he's your best bet, but don't take my word for it. Look him up, read what he's posted, make up your own mind. Then call him (I got $5 says he steers you away from a coil over set up).

Next, wheel hop for many is sufficiently addressed with stiffer bushings in the rear lca's. That's it, no upper arms, no relocation brackets, nada. Some folks have different "drag race" requirements, so maybe you need some extra help, but I'd at least start with the lca's and then assess if you are happy. This is as close to "doing it right" as you're going to get, because this way you have direct data to back up your claim to needing something more. Anyone can throw a bunch of money at their car, be happy with the results, and then tell themselves that they spent their money well because they "did it right." Don't be that guy.

Panhard is good. Panhard brace is bling (but comforting bling). The OEM one is flimsy if you take it off the car and twist it in a way it'll never see on the car. Do that; it's fun. Then crawl under an FR500S track car. Take a guess what you'll see? Yep, the same thing that just twisted in your hand is on a dedicated road racing car. OTH, for $100 or so, it's neat bling (I have one).

The other stuff is only valuable if you're really trying to wring out every last bit of performance from the car (and likely in a competition setting). Keep in mind an honest view of what your intent is with the car.

The bumpsteer kit isn't needed at all, the BMR arms are not needed (there were early reports of them failing under road race conditions, so I take that as a "drag race company product" that isn't really suited for track use).

Personally, I think there's value in the longer upper arm of Steeda's rear upper control arm, but I'm not willing to go so far as say that's so for someone just looking for improved street driving.

The caster camber plates are wise. They're more secure in retaining alignment settings than the bolts. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone really complain about any aftermarket cc plate they put on these cars (aside from not getting more than -2 deg with the Steeda plates - ask me how I know), and the GT500 swap is common enough.

Lowering the car at the level you described is not a drastic affair (though it offers some nice benefits). In the early days of the S197 chassis, some guys didn't even need an adjustable panhard to recenter the axle. That was because there was sufficient variation in the factory offerings as to make it a hit or miss affair. Some guys really needed it. My guess is that you'll likely need it, and besides the stiffer bushings in the new phb are really worth the price in their own right.

Sam once pointed out to me that the factory Shelby GTs were lowered an inch or so, yet they ran all the same hardware as the regular GTs in terms of control arms, etc. So where was all the concern for driveshaft angles? This is on a car expected to meet the standards of the full factory warranty period. Could the Ford engineers have botched a basic one like this? Sure. Likely? I doubt it. Bottom line here, I'd suggest getting adjustable lowers to be safe, have the driveshaft checked and adjusted with these if necessary, and then wait on the upper arm if you still feel wheel hop is a problem.

Sorry for rambling on. I just see this often. What's "done right" for the car has to come from what's right for you. But if you haven't approached that systematically, you're likely spending where it will do minimal good. I'll bet you're going to be pretty happy with the RTR kit, at least for a while. And that is cool as hell. Enjoy it until you honestly feel the need to move on and you understand what the shortcomings are that you're addressing.

Best,
-j

angryBits

I love the RTR wheels. They are heavy (tho lighter than stock) but I live in pothole infested San Francisco and I need strong wheels not some super light wheel that will bend from looking at them. I know dropping rotational weight is huge, but I'm willing to sacrifice a little. If I want super light wheels I may get another set for the track.

I'm not sold on coilovers but like I said in my original post, I do want adjustable height so I am leaning that way.

PHB is a must, especially if I want adjustable height - no way to argue this.

LCA and 3rd Link are an attempt to remove wheel hop. Lots of research and opinions from others as well as the Steeda support guys I've talked to seem to support this.

The bump steer and relocate kit may not be necessary. I may very likely cut these, but they're both low cost upgrades.

I haven't been convinced that I'm doing anything wrong, but I do appreciate your input.

socalwrench

I don't think he's following me. Besides, I run the H&R race springs on the Ford Performance dampers. It's the perfect performance spring for the street and track in my opinion; just stiff enough to handle the weight of the car.

Adj. Koni dampers are nice, but with springs you won't be too far from the price of coilovers.

A lot of this comes down to how fast you plan on going, and how much money you're willing to spend. If you want, contact Emerson at Last Call Racing. He has a lot of good stuff that's relatively inexpensive, but can also get you Griggs race components if needed - (858) 527-2917.

Philostang

Sorry, my bad, I wasn't trying to say you were doing something wrong. Mostly I was asking a question in a long drawn out way. In general it was this: What is your real intent with the car? Or alternatively (and much more helpfully put): What is the car doing right now that fails to meet your intentions with it?

So maybe that helps to see why I was pushing for experience and data to drive the mods.

If adjustability is high on your priority list, that's cool. Coil overs offer adjustable ride heights and a far wider range of spring rates that can't be matched by conventional struts. Of course, accessing both of those takes a bit of work, but you may not mind that. The real question becomes, why do you want these? I'm not suggesting you answer here, just throwing it out for your consideration.

There are good reasons to want adjustable ride height and a wider range of spring options. But then again, there's a ton of confusion surrounding these (I blame the advertisers for the products). So sorting out your real needs becomes important.

For example, if you want to have a 1.5" drop in street trim and then drop more for the track, you're likely making a mistake. The car won't be happy dropping much lower than 1.5" and you'll actually lose performance. If, however, you want a mild street drop (say 3/4" - 1") and want to go to 1.5" for the track, that makes a bit more sense. Or! Maybe you want to drive on the street and track at a bit over 1" and then hit a cruise night show with a slammed 2" look. Makes sense, and you can return to a sensible height the next day. That's a lot of monkeying around with the car, but you may be ok with that. I'd ask folks who have the different kits how much work goes into raising or lowering the car (not all coil overs systems are the same). May be your cup of tea, may not.

But then notice what I've been suggesting. If you want a street drop of 1"-1.5" and you don't have an interest in a slammed show look, you're already at a point pretty optimal for the track (without getting into other stuff). So what becomes the value of this adjustment? I'm not saying there's no answer to that question, just suggesting that you'll be well served for having an answer of your own.

Best,
-j

Philostang

Ack! Double bad. Sorry SoCal, I didn't mean you. The OP had a link to a guy in an article that he said he was following.

-j

angryBits

No worries, I did say I was looking for validation.

I get where you're coming from. I'm not one to add parts just to brag that I have them. Some of these parts are unnecessary, but their cost is low so it seems worth it to try for me.

My main goals are to lower the car and reduce wheel hop.

I definitely don't want the slammed look. In fact, if I could have it my way, for the street, I wouldn't lower the front, and just lower the rear enough to better match the front.

As for wheel hop. It seems the "how" is a lot less straight forward, so I talked to the guys at Steeda and they put together a "stop the hop" package for me for the 2011 GT.

txminime

If you are just looking for a mild drop and to eliminate wheel hops, then your part list is overkill.

Adjustable coilovers are neat, but most people have no clue what they are really for. Racers use coilover for a huge selection of spring rate and the ability to corner balance the car. Using coilover to adjust ride height is a neat feature, but you would have to be ready to give the car an alignment (at least toe adjustment) every time you change the ride height. IMO, the hassles far out weight the advantages of using adjustable coil over for the street. I'd pick a set of spring and good shocks and call it a day.

The geometry of the S197 is much superior to the Fox and SN-95 (I used to own one of each... One is full GR-40, the other one is a rolling catalog for MM + IRS swap) and for the mild drop that you are looking for, there is no needs for bump steer kit. It's not rocket science to adjust bump steer, but it takes special tools and I will guarantee that 90% of the alignment shop will give you a blank look if you ask them to check bump steer. I simply have not noticed enough bump steer on my 2011 (Steeda Sports Spring, Koni Sports) to even think about doing that.

Wheel hop is a different story. Some people swore lowering the car eliminates the wheel hops, but others say otherwise. Since I'm not a drag racing type, I can't tell you much about this. But I'd think a properly match set of spring and shocks will help eliminate at least some (if not all) of the wheel hop. I'd upgrade the springs and shocks first and see if additional modifications are needed. My guess is that your driving (launch) style, road condition, and tires plays a large part on wheel hops. There is no reason to throw all the LCA, 3rd link, and control arm relocate on at the same time. For a car that;s primarily driven on the street, keeping it simple is the key. The more parts you throw on the car, the more chance for rattles, clunks, road noise, and things coming loose.

Back to shocks, that's one place where I've learned never to cut corner on. A huge part of how your car rides/handles is depending on the shocks on your car. Went through a lot of different shocks in my other cars and both of them ended up with Koni (DA on the Fox, non-adjustable on the SN-95, Sports on the 2011). Talk to a few people about what you are looking for and see what they recommends.

FC