FRPP Brake Ducts
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 155
From: Toronto
FRPP Brake Ducts
I ordered frpp # M-2004-MB ($290 cdn). The website states:
Does that sound like it would fit the GT? I thought so, but as it turns out you must have the CS lower fascia. I was not willing to cut the OE fascia, so after $500 extra in parts and labour, I had ducts that fit. I have to admit, my local shop did a first class job and I'm very happy with their work.
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
Does that sound like it would fit the GT? I thought so, but as it turns out you must have the CS lower fascia. I was not willing to cut the OE fascia, so after $500 extra in parts and labour, I had ducts that fit. I have to admit, my local shop did a first class job and I'm very happy with their work.
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 244
From: BC
I ordered frpp # M-2004-MB ($290 cdn). The website states:
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
- Designed to fit 2010-2012 GT/CS lower fascia insert fog lamp opening
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 178
From: Kansas
I believe what he was getting at was he assumed that the FRPP kit fit the stock GT front end because it said 'GT/CS'. So he was thinking $290+ install, not $290 plus the Boss/CS front end plus even more install.
FWIW, I have not looked at the Boss supplement but I find it hard to believe you could run any kind of street pad on track even with Brembos and brake cooling, but depending on driving style and the track it might work? The car is not light and with the 5.0 particularly is quite fast; just doesn't seem like you could get away without track pads. That said, I don't think you wasted your money, either. You'll want brake cooling whether you have to run track pads or not, and the Boss/CS front end does give your front end a little meaner look. Maybe not $790 meaner, but hopefully enough to put a dent in that number
.
Phil
2010 GT
FWIW, I have not looked at the Boss supplement but I find it hard to believe you could run any kind of street pad on track even with Brembos and brake cooling, but depending on driving style and the track it might work? The car is not light and with the 5.0 particularly is quite fast; just doesn't seem like you could get away without track pads. That said, I don't think you wasted your money, either. You'll want brake cooling whether you have to run track pads or not, and the Boss/CS front end does give your front end a little meaner look. Maybe not $790 meaner, but hopefully enough to put a dent in that number
. Phil
2010 GT
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 155
From: Toronto
I guess I'm choked about the money. I'm starting to calm down and realize that I'm saving myself the hassle of changing pads and bedding them in every time I go to the track.
I didn't know I could get the Boss 302 supplement, so thanks for that. Very interesting, and it does make me feel better about installing the ducts. The brake conditioning recommendations are going to be tough to follow. From the supp:
Brake burnishing procedure for race track driving
If the vehicle has to be driven on a track (racing) or in severe driving conditions, the following steps must be performed on a closed course, not on public roads:
• Burnish: 30 burnish stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4g deceleration,
one mile (1.6 km) between stops. If the vehicle has more than
200 miles (322 km) on the brakes, skip this step and proceed to the
Fade stops.
• Fade: 20 fade stops, at 65-0 mph (105-0 km/h), 0.85g deceleration or just below ABS activity, no dwell between stops
• Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
• Recovery: 30 recovery stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4 g deceleration, one mile (1.6 km) between stops
• Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
The burnishing is done, and I'll probably just do 3 or 4 moderate laps and then go for a drive to cool the brakes down. What's a "recovery stop"?
I didn't know I could get the Boss 302 supplement, so thanks for that. Very interesting, and it does make me feel better about installing the ducts. The brake conditioning recommendations are going to be tough to follow. From the supp:
Brake burnishing procedure for race track driving
If the vehicle has to be driven on a track (racing) or in severe driving conditions, the following steps must be performed on a closed course, not on public roads:
• Burnish: 30 burnish stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4g deceleration,
one mile (1.6 km) between stops. If the vehicle has more than
200 miles (322 km) on the brakes, skip this step and proceed to the
Fade stops.
• Fade: 20 fade stops, at 65-0 mph (105-0 km/h), 0.85g deceleration or just below ABS activity, no dwell between stops
• Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
• Recovery: 30 recovery stops at 60-0 mph (96-0 km/h), 0.4 g deceleration, one mile (1.6 km) between stops
• Cool down: Minimum of five mile (8 km) cool down route, if on public roads (no brakes) run at 60 mph (96 km/h)
The burnishing is done, and I'll probably just do 3 or 4 moderate laps and then go for a drive to cool the brakes down. What's a "recovery stop"?
4th Gear Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,778
From: Harrisburg PA
Like DPE alludes to - braking is a very individual type of thing. Some guys are really easy on brakes, some are really hard. A lot depends on tires and the track also. Sticky R-comps means more severe brake usage and some tracks are brutal on brakes, other aren't.
Personally I'd be very surprised if any "street" pad, regardless of size (i.e. Brembo) or cooling would survive much track usage. You've seen pictures of the rotors glowing on race cars right? Take a typical Grand Am GT car - it will weigh less than its producition equivalent and have dual cooling ducts and yet the rotors will still glow - that over 1000 degrees there! There is no street pad that can survive that and still be quiet and low dust. But of course, we don't all drive like those guys either - so....who knows...maybe they will work for you. Give us an update sometime.
Personally I'd be very surprised if any "street" pad, regardless of size (i.e. Brembo) or cooling would survive much track usage. You've seen pictures of the rotors glowing on race cars right? Take a typical Grand Am GT car - it will weigh less than its producition equivalent and have dual cooling ducts and yet the rotors will still glow - that over 1000 degrees there! There is no street pad that can survive that and still be quiet and low dust. But of course, we don't all drive like those guys either - so....who knows...maybe they will work for you. Give us an update sometime.
4th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,692
From: Ontario, Canada
Ansibe
I just install the track pads, Carbotech XP10 F/R this year, in the spring and run track pads until the fall when I go back to street pads. About a week or so after a track day they start to squeal like a stuck pig but I just live with it.
If you are running at Mosport you might get away with street pads for a couple of events but at TMP if you are running hard then you might use up a set in a day, especially the rears. The rears are also the hardest to replace especially if you don't have the special tool.
I just install the track pads, Carbotech XP10 F/R this year, in the spring and run track pads until the fall when I go back to street pads. About a week or so after a track day they start to squeal like a stuck pig but I just live with it.
If you are running at Mosport you might get away with street pads for a couple of events but at TMP if you are running hard then you might use up a set in a day, especially the rears. The rears are also the hardest to replace especially if you don't have the special tool.
Gentleman's Relish
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 13,187
From: AZ
I ordered frpp # M-2004-MB ($290 cdn). The website states:
Does that sound like it would fit the GT? I thought so, but as it turns out you must have the CS lower fascia. I was not willing to cut the OE fascia, so after $500 extra in parts and labour, I had ducts that fit. I have to admit, my local shop did a first class job and I'm very happy with their work.
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
Does that sound like it would fit the GT? I thought so, but as it turns out you must have the CS lower fascia. I was not willing to cut the OE fascia, so after $500 extra in parts and labour, I had ducts that fit. I have to admit, my local shop did a first class job and I'm very happy with their work.
But ...
I bought the ducts so that I could use the stock Bembos for track days and not worry about switching to track pads every time I go to the track. $790 would have bought me 2 sets of Hawk DTC60s, and a set of OE disks, which represents two track seasons. I think I just blew $790.
Thread Starter
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 155
From: Toronto
My driving style does seem to be easy on brakes. I try to keep my corner speed up, and at my relatively pathetic talent level that means lighter braking. If I brake late and hard I typically misjudge the corner entry point and screw up the weight transfer to the outside. In any case, I've never had a problem with street pads that I couldn't manage.
I will certainly post an update after my first track day. I'm planning to be at the Mosport DDT this weekend. It's a slow track that's relatively hard on brakes, but not as hard as TMP.
Derf00, with 7350 posts you probably know more about mustangs than I ever will! I'll be more careful next time I order FRPP stuff.
Sleeper, it's amazing that the rears wear at all considering the pitch of the car under braking. The Boss owner supp recommends removing the rear dust cover, have you done that?
I will certainly post an update after my first track day. I'm planning to be at the Mosport DDT this weekend. It's a slow track that's relatively hard on brakes, but not as hard as TMP.
Derf00, with 7350 posts you probably know more about mustangs than I ever will! I'll be more careful next time I order FRPP stuff.
Sleeper, it's amazing that the rears wear at all considering the pitch of the car under braking. The Boss owner supp recommends removing the rear dust cover, have you done that?
4th Gear Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,692
From: Ontario, Canada
My driving style does seem to be easy on brakes. I try to keep my corner speed up, and at my relatively pathetic talent level that means lighter braking. If I brake late and hard I typically misjudge the corner entry point and screw up the weight transfer to the outside. In any case, I've never had a problem with street pads that I couldn't manage.
I will certainly post an update after my first track day. I'm planning to be at the Mosport DDT this weekend. It's a slow track that's relatively hard on brakes, but not as hard as TMP.
Derf00, with 7350 posts you probably know more about mustangs than I ever will! I'll be more careful next time I order FRPP stuff.
Sleeper, it's amazing that the rears wear at all considering the pitch of the car under braking. The Boss owner supp recommends removing the rear dust cover, have you done that?
I will certainly post an update after my first track day. I'm planning to be at the Mosport DDT this weekend. It's a slow track that's relatively hard on brakes, but not as hard as TMP.
Derf00, with 7350 posts you probably know more about mustangs than I ever will! I'll be more careful next time I order FRPP stuff.
Sleeper, it's amazing that the rears wear at all considering the pitch of the car under braking. The Boss owner supp recommends removing the rear dust cover, have you done that?
It has been a while since I ran at the Mosport DDT but remember it being hard on brakes.
2nd Gear Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 178
From: Kansas
Just for clarity on the rear brakes; I have not required a special tool to twist the piston back into the rear calipers. A needle-nose pliers will do the trick. Takes a bit to get it started, but once you get it started it twists back in pretty easily.
Also on the rear brakes, I don't know how ANY street pad will survive back there on track for any length of time. No, they're not doing as much work as the fronts are, but they also have a much smaller heat sink (rotor), no cooling ducts, and a smaller pad. I would expect a short life.
In my experience, once you get a brake pad much past its operating temperature it really burns up quickly. You don't notice the fade as much from the rear pads, but they literally can get vaporized in a short amount of time if they are street pads being run hard on track. I've seen Carbotech Bobcats, one of the best street pads with great fade resistance, go from near new to metal on metal in 60 track miles on the rear of a 350Z. Granted, non-Brembo 350Zs have absolutely pathetic brakes (especially the early ones) and a TINY rear pad, but one can see the point here.
And if anyone is still reading at this point, one other thing about brakes. Pads seem to go from new to 50% relatively slowly, and from 50% to dead pretty quickly. Presumably it's just that there's less material there to withstand the heat, so they run hotter and get used up faster? This goes for street and race pads. Anyway, just another tidbit to throw out there for anyone who cares. If your pads are half gone, watch them closely as they may be totally gone sooner than you'd expect.
Also on the rear brakes, I don't know how ANY street pad will survive back there on track for any length of time. No, they're not doing as much work as the fronts are, but they also have a much smaller heat sink (rotor), no cooling ducts, and a smaller pad. I would expect a short life.
In my experience, once you get a brake pad much past its operating temperature it really burns up quickly. You don't notice the fade as much from the rear pads, but they literally can get vaporized in a short amount of time if they are street pads being run hard on track. I've seen Carbotech Bobcats, one of the best street pads with great fade resistance, go from near new to metal on metal in 60 track miles on the rear of a 350Z. Granted, non-Brembo 350Zs have absolutely pathetic brakes (especially the early ones) and a TINY rear pad, but one can see the point here.
And if anyone is still reading at this point, one other thing about brakes
. Pads seem to go from new to 50% relatively slowly, and from 50% to dead pretty quickly. Presumably it's just that there's less material there to withstand the heat, so they run hotter and get used up faster? This goes for street and race pads. Anyway, just another tidbit to throw out there for anyone who cares. If your pads are half gone, watch them closely as they may be totally gone sooner than you'd expect.