Ansibe

Mosport Driver development track is tight, undulating, bumpy, and hard on brakes. My car is unmodified, but I had a great time. It was one of the quickest cars out there.

It's too soft, which I think is mostly due to a lack of shock damping. I'm really not sure if the spring rates need to increase, but they do need to be controlled better. In the inevitable "slip and grip" situations, the car bobbed back and forth like crazy which made the recovery interesting. I tend to get out of the throttle too quickly on those occasions which doesn't help. The suspension is soft enough that the tire shoulders were wearing noticeably. That hasn't happened since I had my last Ford on the track - a 2000 focus SE! We all start somewhere, right.

On this track the brakes were marginal at best. I guess I'll have to go to a track pad. Probably Hawk, but maybe Carbotech if someone can suggest a dealer.

The transmission is fantastic. Even the 3-2 shift was no issue. Having said that, the motor is so good shifting seems optional!

Sleeper_08

I don't think there is a Canadian Carbotech dealer - I just order mine directly from Carbotech and they ship them via mail.

I'm off to TMP on Sunday May 1 - provided the weather is OK.

DPE

Glad you had fun! The 5.0 must be positively brilliant out there, as I felt like my 4.6 was awful darn good after my first Mustang track day a couple weeks ago. Funny you should mention shock damping; not sure if you saw my thread from last night regarding whether anyone had put 'just shocks' without springs on a 2010-2011, but suffice to say I very much agree after one track day that the car seems to need shocks a lot more than anything else.

Did you check your rear diff for any fluid escaping? Mine puked up a decent amount from the little vent on top of the axle toward the passenger side, but I have since gotten the $46 turkey-baster looking part that reportedly fixes that issue. Just something to check.

And +1 for Carbotech. Hawk makes some good stuff, but I feel like they're eating my rotors every time I apply the brakes. Carbotechs seem 'softer', while still providing very aggressive braking with zero fade. And they're a small, family owned business which doesn't make them 'better' but they're just a good group of folks. Call them directly and they will take care of you.

JAJ

Thanks for sharing your experience with the suspension. I've done some of the mods you're thinking about, so here's how it went for me.

My first track day for real was cold and wet in the morning and cool and dry in the afternoon, at a local track with 9 turns in 2.2km. Very technical, hard on brakes, etc.

I thought the car handled brilliantly, particularly in the wet, but I wasn't as fast as I used to be in my V8 M3 as the track dried and the day warmed up a bit. I wasn't sure if that's because the M3 (with KW Clubsports) was actually faster, or if I was still being overly cautious in the new car. The level of grip kept surprising me, so I probably just need more seat time.

Anyway, my suspension on the day was as follows: Steeda Sport springs, stock front bar, Strano's rear bar (on medium), a Fays2 Watt link, and a set of Bilstein HD's. I was running 2 degrees negative camber, slight toe-in, and Nitto NT-01's in 275/35x18 square at 38 PSI hot on 9.5" rims.

As the track warmed up the GT3's started outrunning me in the corners, but not by much, and the way the car puts the power down meant I could get off the corners better than I could in the M3. As I get comfortable with the notion that it's not going to surprise me, I'll keep stepping up the speeds. I believe that as it sits today the car itself is as fast or faster than the M3, and I think with a few more suspension tweaks it will be faster still. Tire wear was pretty even, but I want more negative camber to make sure it stays that way as speeds increase. Stiffer front springs are probably in my future too.

At this point I'm torn between just running what I have until I reach the end of what it has to give, or putting on a set of GC or KW coil-overs. I have to strip each hub down to change the brake rotors each time out, so swapping the struts from a street set to a track set is literally a ten-minute job. As for the rear, well, it's pretty nice just the way it is, so other than maybe stiffer springs I'm tempted to leave it alone.

Ansibe

Thanks, Phil. I had a blast. 412 Hp is a lot.

Forgot to check. Damn! There does seem to be a little stain on my garage floor under the driver side axle. Does that sound like the diff leaking?

Thanks. I prefer dealing with the little guys, so I'll give them a shout.

Argonaut

Regarding pads - here's my opinion: Carbo Tech 8s and 10s are nice pads, I like them a lot. They feel good, never fade and inspire confidence. They don't wear rotors to badly when cold. The dust is also friendly and easy to clean up, when it gets wet the dust is still easy to get off. But there are a few cons: they don't last. I eat up CTs much faster than some of the other brands. They are the hardest pad to bed in my experience, really fussy about having a proper bed in or else you get judder.

On the other hand the Hawk DTC series last longer and are easier to bed in but eat rotors when cold and have awful dust that causes rust spots when it gets wet.

Personally I think they both perform very well, so thats not a factor. Its the other stuff and what matters most to you. If you are doing lots of events, eating thru a set of carbos every few weekends gets way to expensive and, unless you have dedicated rotors, doing re-bedding can be a pain. But on the other hand, if you have really nice wheels and want to keep them that way then the DTC cleanup can be frustrating. Right now I'm using Ferrodo and really like them.

With the Brembos that so many of you guys have, isn't there a variety of pads available? Everyone always talks about Hawk vs Carbotech - what about Willwood, PFC, Cobalt Friction, etc. They all make great track pads.

Ansibe

My last car was a 2008 M3, which was awful at Mosport DDT. It seemed to lack grip (bridgestone RE11s), and the 3-2 shift was brutal. The mustang shifts much better, and the throttle is less sensitive which allows me to modulate the power more easily. I had way more fun in the ‘stang, which is why I bought it.

Impressive. You’re way ahead of me. My plan is Steeda Sports; Koni yellow; -1.5 camber; and probably Strano bars.

GT3s? I’m happy to stay with the STIs and Evos!

Thanks for the info. What is 'KW'? Let us know how things progress.

Cheers,
Simon.

JAJ

I used to have RE-01R's - they stuck well for a while but heat cycled into oblivion after two or three times at the track. The stock M3 suspension is good, but it's got weird damping and it doesn't put the power down very well.

I planned on the "full Strano" as well, but decided to stage the work so I could see what I was really getting from each change. The only one I couldn't do that with was the Fays2 - once it's installed, your choice of rear bars narrows considerably - the OEM bar doesn't fit, and the Strano bar hits the Fays2 at full stiff. I put the Fays and rear bar on at the same time, and after a fair bit of fiddling, I'm happy with both the fit and the performance.

As for shocks, I've always liked Bilstein, so I picked them up locally instead of waiting for Koni's. I doubt it makes much difference. Spring rates do matter though, and the front spring rates and camber setting will affect tire wear - if you go fast with too little of either, you'll chew through front tires very quickly.

GT3's aren't as hard to follow through corners as you might think. If you watch an ALMS race, the GT's and the Prototypes actually corner at about the same speed, but the Prototypes blast off into the distance on the straights. Running with GT3's is just like that. If you want to know if your suspension is working or not, wait for one to pass you at the end of a straight, then follow it at a respectable distance through the corner. If you can maintain your following distance, then you can't blame your suspension if you're unhappy with your lap times.

KW is a German company that makes suspension parts in Germany - www.kwsuspensions.com. It's REALLY good stuff and priced accordingly. If I remember correctly, they make four kits for the S197, starting with basic coil-overs and advancing up to a full-race setup. Having their double-adjustable CS kit on the M3 taught me a lot about setting up dampers. Most "sports" kits are built to be heavy on the rebound damping and light on low-speed compression damping. This gives that firm "sporty" ride, but the handling is sub-par. On the M3, I ended up with much less rebound than the recommended amount, and the ride was smooth and the handling was great on 500# front springs and 800# rears.