JAJ

So, I came to the Mustang community with a bunch of left-over BMW M3 parts, including a full set of all-but-new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires. 245/35x19 fronts, 265/35x19 rears. A few hundred miles and a track day was all the wear there was on them.

I thought about selling them, but these $450-per-each tires won't net me a dime, so I decided to pick up a set of rims and just slap them on my 2011 GT. Rears are close to the stock size, fronts not so much, but still the same diameter as my 275/35x18 track tires so I know they'll work. Maybe do a few track days with them or just run around on them. The PSC is a wonderful tire to drive on - they're smooth and quiet with awesome grip.

After some shopping, I settled on TSW Nurburgrings with the machined faces in 19x9.5". Nice looking, lightweight and with a decent reputation. Ordered the wheels locally and had them in about 10 days. Unpacked them, did a trial fit, and headed to my trusty tire shop to get the PSC's installed. That's when things started to wander off-script.

One of the PSC's, a rear, had a split inside the inner bead and the wire was showing. Tire machine guy says "manufacturing defect". After all, what else could he say? Fast forward to today - after buying a new tire from TireRack so I could complete the set, Michelin had a local dealer (in Canada) assess the tire and upon consideration they determined it really was a manufacturing defect. There were no replacement tires available in Canada, so they mailed me a cheque to reimburse me for the one from TireRack. I was super impressed with them. The PSC is a no-warranty track tire, these were a year old, and it was cross-border the whole way through. Lots of reasons for them to "just say no" but they came through. Props to Michelin - I'm one happy customer.

Not so much for TSW though. It turns out the lovely Nurburgring rims with the machined faces aren't all made the same. When I went to put on the hub caps, the front caps wouldn't fit. On the right side of the car, the wheel bearing cap actually projects out of the hole in the rim. On the drivers's side it's flush. Neither cap will go in the hole because the bearing cap is in the way.

After a couple of hours with my digital caliper, I finally concluded that none of my four rims is the same as any of the others. The machining on the face is highly variable, and they cut away so much metal to make the "machined" finish that the caps don't fit any more. What was even more surprising is that they don't cut the same amount of metal off every rim - my "thickest" rim is 2 millimeters thicker than my "thinnest" rim. The hub is thinner, the spokes are thinner (15mm vs 17mm) and the flange is thinner. Apparently, quality control is not a factor in making these things.

Anway, coming off the very positive experience with Michelin, I was very surprised when TSW's response, relayed through the dealer, was "if you've mounted a tire, there's no warranty. Furthermore, if the caps don't fit, that's not our problem. Furthermore if they're not all the same thickness, we don't care."

So, that's my story. Buy Michelin tires. They're good products backed by a great company.

TSW not so much.

Ansibe

That's a tough break, JAJ. I've always liked the look of TSW rims, and seriously considered them for my (ex) M3. I'm glad I never got around to it. Mustangs have the same wheel spec as Hyundai Genesis (I think), maybe you could sell them to a Genesis guy?

So far, I've been avoiding the PS2 and PSC for cost reasons. I kind of accept that they're the best, but never thought they were value leaders. Maybe I'll put them back on my list. I'd love to hear how they work out on your GT. I've suspected that because of the lateral movement of the rear suspension over bumps, the mustang needed at least 100 mm of sidewall (255/40, 285/35). You're down to 93 mm at the back, so let us know how it feels in bumpy corners.

Are there any bumpy roads in lotus land?

908ssp

I had no issues with my TSWs.

JAJ

Vancouver City has some amazingly bumpy roads - we don't get repaved any more than every 20 years or so, so the roads get pretty chewed up and uneven from construction and the odd bit of cold weather.

As for lateral movement, I've got a Fays2 Watts link, so side-to-side motion is not an issue. With that said, the PSC's ride better than the stock Pirelli's. I've got a set of four 265/40x18's PS2's on 18x9.5" SVT rims and they're pretty nice too. Once again, left over from the M3.

As for "problems" with the TSW's, the wheels themselves look really good and the finish is great. If they were all the same size and the caps actually fit, I'd be really pleased with them. Because it's the face that's weird, the rear of the rim is fine, so the offsets and backspacings are all exactly what they should be. They work just fine and look great on the car. Well, except for the ASA brand center caps that I fabricated for them, which look a little out of place.

However, given that the spokes are random dimensions, these rims will never see a race track, which is too bad because that's what the PSC's were actually for. Instead, they're just another pretty face.

2005Redfire6

Sounds like a pretty harsh response from TSW if that was said, I would avoid anything from them.

JAJ

The whole conversation with the dealer about the rims and the issues was conducted by email, so the responses are clear. I'm pretty sure that what I'm getting from them is a canned response designed to ward off a whiney customer who gets his wheels and then changes his mind and wants to send them back. That's not me - I really like them, I just would have preferred four that were made the same and had caps that fit.

Before I bought these rims, I did a lot of research on this and other forums and there are lots of posts about how great the painted TSW Nurburgring wheels look on a 2011 Kona Blue Mustang. The effect was a bit dark for my taste so I chose the machined ones instead. I'm convinced that the baseline wheel design itself is sound and fits properly. Somehow, TSW seems to have lost control of the face machining operation that comes after each wheel is spun-forged and before it's painted. The cut depth seems to be random, which when you think about it, is a hard effect to achieve in what I presume is an automated factory.

Anyway, as I mentioned already, other than the specific issues I've reported, these wheels certainly look like quality products to me. The finish and the packaging make it clear that TSW cares about quality and consistency. It's just that sometimes, companies get so used to making quality products that they just can't believe it when someone says there's a problem.

908ssp

Any machining operation has a tolerance could be a thousandth or could be .040". The engineering department will dictate the range. If the wheel is machine once and has some chatter marks they might take a second cut as long as it falls within their acceptable range the wheel is good. Of course this means that you might get wheels that don't match but both are good wheels. Most people would never take a caliper to spoke to check the thickness if it is within tolerance and looks good it is good.

Now the thing about the caps is weird. I assume they sent you caps? Mine came with the caps installed and I haven't touched them. I didn't buy the machined face rims mine are solid black. I tough about removing the center caps and making cones for the bearing cover like race cars have for fast tire changes. Of course it is just a looks thing but with my longer wheel studs and titanium open lug nuts it would be the bees knees.

JAJ

I'm pretty comfortable with tolerances, and the underlying wheels are very well made. When I measured the backspacing I put a straightedge across the back of the wheel from flange to flange, and a second one across the bolt face. The variation from wheel to wheel was less than I could measure. On the other hand, the measurement through the center hole from the bolt face to the outer face varied by 2mm or about 80 thousandths of an inch. Of course I never would have known any of this if the center caps had actually fit in the first place. But the front wheel bearing caps are tall enough that they stick out through the wheel's centerbore, and the flat TSW center caps won't go on with the bearing cap in the way.

The packaging the rims came in was impressive. First there was an outer box and then an inner box. With the two boxes open, there was a reinforced cardboard plate on the face side of the rim. Under the cardboard plate there was a closed-cell foam pad and under the foam pad the rim was entirely enclosed in a heavy plastic bag. Inside the plastic bag the face of the rim was covered by a sewn fabric cover with elasticized edges.

The caps were inside a bundle of plastic bubble wrap taped to the inside of the box bottom. Inside the bubble wrap, there was a closed cell foam envelope with a ziploc bag inside. Inside the ziploc, there was a grey plastic cap base and a round aluminum plate with the TSW logo anodized on the face. The anodized face is covered by blue protectant film and the back has a self adhesive layer to hold it to the grey plastic base. It's essentially a do-it-yourself cap kit.

So that's how my caps came. There was a lot of effort in the packaging to make sure they arrived intact and undamaged, and for sure mine did just that.

If yours came installed on the rims, then someone at some point unpacked all that cardboard and plastic and assembled the caps for you.

908ssp

Yes that is possible. While mine were well packed yours sounds even better. I asked to have all black center caps to go with my all black wheels could be they painted them installed them and sent them out.

You might want to consider having custom center caps made. They would of course bulge out or extend a bit from the mounting surface but that should not stop them from looking fine.

JAJ

I had a set of ASA domed center caps left over from another wheel set. They have the required depth to fit, so I bored the centers out of TSW's grey plastic cap bases, drilled and tapped a set of holes around the outer edges and screwed the ASA caps to the TSW bases. They snap in just like real TSW caps would if there were real TSW caps. It seems that "Macgyver" is alive and well, living in Vancouver and has graduated to making wheel center caps.